However, in no way do I find this video (or Balter’s) a violation of COPA’s safety code. I find it educational and interesting. And it further solidifies the fact that I really don’t want to end up having to do a low-altitude turn with an engine failure.
In fact, watching Balter’s, I found at least one significant thing where I believe he is wrong. But it has had me thinking through it in great detail in case I missed a nuance that he was trying to convey. I’m still not 100% sure I am right… but still mulling on it.
My “experience” has nothing to do with this. I’m a super low-time Cirrus pilot. And I can learn from this. And “learning”… both “what to do” and “what not to do”… is good for me.
I think I understand. For you, the interesting academic side of this (the “learning”) outweighs the concern that pilots who are lesser than yourself might be moved to experiment with the maneuver - and kill themselves in the process.
It is just a different perspective. For me, your POV would make more sense on a diverse aviation forum like AOPA where aircraft types are all over the map. Here, I would guess 95% of readers fly Cirrus. The maneuver is not recommended for Cirrus. That is the difference I see.
With the utmost respect intended, and acknowledging this is a moderated forum, some of the reactions here seem a little over the top in thought control. [:|] When I was primarily flying a Cirrus, I still flew a lot of other aircraft types, and now that I fly mostly other aircraft types, I will still fly Cirri when the opportunity arises. My goodness. I hope most here don’t deprive themselves of the opportunity to explore aviation outside of just a Cirrus. This post was outside the Cirrus specific forum, and seemed entirely appropriate and interesting in that context.
Hi Laurence! What prop did you have on when this video was done?
Pretty clear that in most engine out take off situations when at CAPS of 500’ plus CAPS it is. A lot of discussion about disclaimers for the original BackCountry182 video which is fine, but I think it’s pretty clear to anyone that the maneuvers and places this guy lands in his highly modified 182 aren’t something anyone in their right mind flying a Cirrus would attempt :-).
I can honestly and sincerely say I do not understand why you are astonished. No joke. No snark. No sarcasm.
If my assessment is so wrong that (for you) the academic “learning” outweighs the safety risk to curious pilots moved to experiment with the maneuver, then why do you disagree with the contention that that posting the video is inappropriate or unwise? Or in poor taste?
Please enlighten me. Please be specific. Obviously I am missing something big.
Totally agree with Chuck. Its obvious thats not a Cirrus in the video, and I think we’re all smart enough to not simply watch any random video and then go out and try that in a Cirrus. If we practice thought control, a nanny forum so to speak, then nothing except Cirrus videos are allowed, and those will have to be screened and approved by the authorities.
The disclaimer, although not really necessary IMHO, is plenty sufficient. Why not necessary? Well, who watches a video or reads an original post and stops right there? If something is wrong with a video or post, there are immediately 24 disclaimers or corrections or commentaries on the matter from a wide variety of experts. So I don’t worry too much about someone being steered in an unsafe direction by any one post.
I fly other types too and I even do things in them I would never do in my Cirrus.
My point was only that on a Cirrus specific forum to post videos that might encourage someone flying a Cirrus to think it is OK needs some clear guidance. Otherwise it is a great video. That is all.
I will take your sarcastic non-reply as an indicator that you have no cogent reply.
But I remain curious nonetheless. Since you say re-reading the thread (and thinking) makes one able to “figure it out,” I invite other readers to enlighten me on the (apparently obvious) reason for your astonishment.
Maybe so. And if so, I apologize to those. But then I read accident reports all the time that contradicts that notion (generally - but sometimes in type too). There are a great number of very experienced pilots here. There are also a significant number that don’t have that much TT or TIT.
FWIW, I have done tests of the impossible turn in my Cirrus. At altitude with an instructor in the right seat. It is damn difficult in testing knowing it was coming. The successful completion rate was not worth trading CAPS for it. I know based on my own testing to not even try. Just the time pondering it is yielding valuable altitude and eating into your CAPS viability.
I would not like see someone trash an engine on TO and in the heat of the moment say to themselves Oh, I saw that on COPA… Thats all. I will check out of the discussion now.
On TV we all see plenty of ads, or even some programs, where the announcer and/or message on the screen states “Don’t do this at home” or something similar. I’ve seen that on NOVA where some science guy does something with volatiles that would get people killed if they tried it. Most people get it. Most will get it here too.
Those that don’t get it are going to try it anyway, and won’t be dissuaded by all the posts here making it crystal clear nobody should be attempting what Lawrence and Larry have done as a display of their exceptional skills and equipment. The demise of such daredevils will not be due to anything Lawrence or Larry posted. The annual Darwin Awards never suffer from a shortage of candidates.
Hi James. Here’s my 3rd party assessment of your comment and why Jon’s astonished
“For you, the interesting academic side of this (the “learning”) outweighs the concern that pilots who are lesser than yourself might be moved to experiment with the maneuver - and kill themselves in the process.”
Seems like your comment about Jon being more concerned with learning outweighing his concerns that others might be moved to experiment and kill themselves is a HUGE leap and comes off pretty bad IMO. I’m pretty certain that would not be Jon or any other member of this forums attitude or thought process and I’m also pretty certain you don’t actually believe your statement.
I think Roger’s suggestion to add a disclaimer was great and the original poster did do this, but I also hope that anyone flying a Cirrus has the common sense to understand that every aircraft has it’s own unique capabilities and wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that their Cirrus could perform the same things this highly modified 182 (doing some really impressive back country flying and landings) can do.
I originally thought someone else was posting one of your videos, but it’s actually you :-). Love watching your videos on YouTube so keep up the good work and I’ll I’ll be certain to never try to replicate them in my Cirrus!
With all due respect, I don’t see any huge (or HUGE) leap. You do know what “outweigh” means, right?
I did not imply (and certainly would not imply) that anyone here is ambivalent about people killing themselves.
Therefore, I conclude that the Mr. Huggins MUST believe there is zero or near-zero chance of a Cirrus-flying forum reader being moved (by the video) to experiment around with the maneuver. Either that, or he must feel that the trying the maneuver in a Cirrus is OK.
I was trying to establish that must be the “thought process” you refer to because if it is, I disagree about the likelihood of reader reaction. I think my wording was pretty clear. Am I missing something? Is there another explanation I cannot think of? I politely asked Mr. Huggins what the alternate explanation might be, but as you can see he demurred.
