IFR without CSIP?

I’m nearing my PPL in a Piper Archer - and shortly after will be purchasing an SR22-T and doing the Embark/conversion program with a CCIP (obviously).

However, I’m planning a move to a new city right after that and there are no CCIPs nearby… the closest is a good hour away.

I’m planning on pursuing my IFR rating right after the embark stuff, but trying to decide if I’ll just use a CFI nearby or if I really need to make the 2hr round trip drive to do that IFR training with a CCIP…

So - I guess the question is whether it’s important to do IFR training in an SR22-T with a CCIP, or if it’s fine to do that with a CFI (assuming I already had my PPL and cirrus conversion completed).


CCIP is ideal, but any good CFII that knows the avionics is fine. Not worth the commute time.


My personal opinion based on CCIP experience: no need for your IFR training. If you bought a new SR22T, they might be more familiar themselves with Perspective+ which is a plus maybe. In all other avionics constellations, I don’t see an advantage. Your CFI should however know how to hand fly a Cirrus SR22T and how to teach you that as well. Once the AP is off some say Cirrus Pilots don’t necessarily excel in hand flying skills and you might (or might not) appreciate a few hints.

Hello Andrew and welcome!
I think it’s important to use a CSIP ( Cirrus Standardized Instructor Pilots) for your training, or at least a CFII with intimate knowledge of the Cirrus.

Where are you moving too?

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What’s most important is that you find an instructor who knows your avionics and communicates in a way you understand. It’s also important that you both get along. That instructor will teach you how to fly IFR but will expect YOU to know how to fly the airplane, that is, speeds and configurations for the different phases of flight. You can get that from the iFOM if you have an iPad (I don’t), or during your initial checkout with a CSIP. Even if it takes an extra bit of flying, you can ask them about speeds and configurations.

With that said, I personally don’t agree with all those standards. Once you start flying with your IFR instructor, you can discuss them and decide if you want to modify them or not. But if you do, be sure you have a good reason to do so, and that your new ‘standard’ is safe.

Also, be sure you know the proper speeds to fly final with 50% flaps and 100% flaps. And finally, I’ll tell you the same thing I told one of my former Mooney partners who was a relatively new pilot; “Just because you have a fast airplane, doesn’t mean you have to fly fast.” Fly at a safe speed that gives you time to get everything done that needs to be done.

Good luck.



As a new pilot you’re still learning. Cirrus promotes and as a Platinum CSIP as well as Dean of the COPA U college of flight operations, I have good reasons tell you it is important to stick to standards set forth by Cirrus.

The first and foremost is that if one learns and flies to the standards then it becomes very obvious when one is deviating from the standard. This is important because it is an early warning sign and gives you - the pilot in command - the best opportunity to recover to standards or break off the arrival/approach.

That @bobpatch5 doesn’t agree with and suggests you consider modifying them is nature of internet forums and something you’re many, many hours away from. Here at COPA University our dean of the college of aviation safety has collected reams of data that suggests 1) Most Cirrus incident/accidents happen to low time pilots with low time in a Cirrus. That means generally less than 100 hours in your SR22T. 2) Most landing mishaps are characterized by unstable approaches that didn’t adhere to any standard and began well before final approach.

Sticking to Cirrus standards will set a great model from which to learn, trust and gain confidence. Learning that from a CSIP is highly recommended by Cirrus (hence Embark) and most of us in the COPA community, which BTW I hope you’ll embrace by joining. Most will say it is the best $95 a year you can spend to advance your knowledge about owning and flying your Cirrus.

Learn to fly your Cirrus to Cirrus standards to the point that it is second nature. And my recommendation would be to do that with a CSIP that is very current in your model Cirrus (in both avionics and powerplant) straight through to obtaining your instrument rating.

You will be drinking from the proverbial fire hose when you get your SR22T and starting your IR training. Don’t add to the challenge by trying to modify tried and true standards.

Save that for another time when you’ve been flying your Cirrus long enough and have the experience to make that call.


I’m moving to Reno. Thanks for the thoughts!

I agree Reno is CSIP limited. Truckee has Cirrus Training Center; Mountain Lion Aviation who can add Mountain flying checkout to your IR rating. Lots closer than Las Vegas where All in Aviation and I’m located.

Good luck and feel free to reach out if you have questions.

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Second the recommendation for Mountain Lion. The few tenths of an hour you’ll spend flying from Reno to MInden (where one of the Mountain Lion CSIP’s lives) or Truckee for your dual is de minimus.


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