Post deleted by reggiepaulk
No highs, no lows… must be Bose.
The company is a marketing powerhouse. How else can they sell the equivalent of a $30 desktop radio for hundreds of dollars?
Reggie,
I read your article, and I confess I don’t get it. Your case, such as it is, boils down to an inability to find data to support Bose’s hype:
I couldn’t find any information, third party or otherwise, regarding noise reduction for a BOSE headset.
Not openly disseminating measurements of an attribute you consider necessary doesn’t seem to be the same as “duping” customers. Should one surmise that your headline is intended to mislead potential readers?
FWIW, I don’t believe that Bose headsets provide any greater benefit than Lightspeeds costing half as much. But that doesn’t imply that Bose is doing anything more nefarious than finding a niche and leveraging the heck out of it.
-Sanjay
Reggie:
I read your article. I am not persuaded that your conclusion is correct.
I am familiar with all of the reviews of headsets by Aviation Consumer. AFIK they are the only publication that has made an effort to test and rank various headsets.
As others have noted, Aviation Consumer has concluded that Bose are the best, although expensive.
There is a fairly brisk resale market in the Bose Aviation X. They generally are available in the $700-$750 range for the panel powered version.
As to Bose not publishing numbers: I don’t think there is any industry standard for rating headset performance. I would treat all such published numbers with suspicion. The only reliable source of comparison information is Aviation Consumer.
All of the popular flying magazines just do a “jee whiz” article periodically with no real comparison information on headsets.
Any Cirrus pilot and particularly the SR22x pilots would be well advised to consider the Bose. I have made many flights of 4 hours plus without any discomfort. I occasionally will have a slight pain in my ear from being cramped in the headset, but that is rare, and from prior experience would be worse with DCs.
I still remember back in 2001 before I took delivery on my SR22 while flight training in Seattle, WA taking off my then new Bose Aviation X headset to put on a hood and being amazed at the racket inside the cockpit of a SR20. Clearly the SR22 is even noisier.
My hearing is important. I know a number of older friends with aids that are not particularly happy with them and have trouble in social settings (restaurants, etc) in hearing what others are saying.
Relative to other costs for the Cirrus, the Bose are not a large fraction of the cost.
If I were flying a transport category aircraft with the engines far behind the cockpit I would look at some of the lighter weight headsets. However flying close behind the IO550 I am convinced the Bose are the best.
On customer service, I have never had a repair issue. I did exchange my older mike assembly for the improved mike assembly and at the same time got the panel powered version instead of the battery pack. It took a little talking at Oshkosh to get them to agree to swap the battery for the panel power but after the supervisor was consulted it was agreed to.
Finally, there are some products that will work best with the Bose. My headset has a “mike light” that fits well on the Bose mike. In addition, I have the OxyArm oxygen cannula that also mounts to the Bose headset shell that has worked well. In addition, although there are other manufacturers now using the Lemo connectors, for many years the Bose was the only one. Having panel power has substantially simplified use of the headsets.
Reggie—I love them!! Used to use DC’s.
Would not trade my Bose—great audio, comfortable and durable. My wife feels the same and she is a tough critic!!
Every aircraft I currently own and every aircraft I’ve owned over the last 5 years has had Bose headsets installed. I did a quick count and I’ve owned something like 16 Bose headsets (4 in R44 Raven I, 4 in R44 Raven II, 4 in Cirrus SR22, 4 in PC12). Never a problem and I love them. The market has voted and Bose (for now) is winning. And yes, I would NOT own any of their stereo speakers. Martin Logan’s for me:)
Well, a lot of people have chimed in on this post, and itÂ’s overwhelmingly in favor of Bose. I expected nothing less. Bose wouldnÂ’t get the accolades it does if its headsets fit or sounded poorly.
Two people mentioned a review in Aviation Consumer magazine that named the Bose as the champion of ANR headsets. Reading the article, I was disappointed to find they only tested headsets in the 300-3000 Hz frequency range—that of the human voice. The problem with the test is it completely missed one of the main generators of noise in a propeller-driven airplane: propeller and engine noise. Propellers and engines produce ear damaging sounds in the 50-120 Hz range. The human ear can detect sounds from about 20 Hz all the way up to 20,000 Hz. Because Aviation Consumer only tested ANR suppression in the lab-controlled 300-3000 Hz range, we still don’t have any objective data regarding in-cockpit suppression.
As for in-flight testing, Bose came out on top in a non-scientific, subjective test. On a 1-10 scale, Bose performed 1.5 points better than Telex, its nearest competitor. This test misses the boat entirely, because it contained none of the elements of a true blind study. Only four testers were used, and the headsets had nothing to disguise the brand. A test based upon the perception of the tester has to at least disguise the equipment being tested. To reach a true statistical conclusion, a minimum of 30 testers would need to be used.
For those of you who wear Bose headsets on a daily basis, you may think this is an exercise in futility, but let me ask one thing. Does Bose recommend you carry a spare set of earplugs in case of a headset power failure? The reason I ask is because if you are to experience a failure of the ANR on a Bose headset, your ears are pretty much out in the open. Those little Triports on the side of your ear cup provide little resistance to ambient noise once the speakers inside fail. Of course, a couple of hours exposed to 97db is going to slightly damage your hearing, but it isnÂ’t going to make you go deaf.
Yeah, yeah, so what? Who cares? Well, the reason I started this post in the first place was to ask a question. Is Bose creating an illusion? The answer so far is yes. Bose has optimized its headset to sound best in the range of the human voice. They’ve gone so far as to cut holes in the headset to prevent distortion, and they’ve created the illusion that they are better by producing a perceived level of sound quality and suppression better than their rivals. When it comes to at-the-ear noise suppression, there are no figures for us—even after the Aviation Consumer test, unfortunately. So why does all this matter? Your hearing, of course.
Here is an excerpt from an article printed on www.hearinghazards.com that describes noise reduction ratings and their significance:
“Many people do not understand the labels on ear protection that indicate the noise reduction rating or NRR. Take, for example, a foam plug that has a published NRR of 27 dB. Now, good old common sense tells you that if you’ve got a noise level of 107 dB, and earplugs with an NRR of 27 dB, when you put the plugs on, the noise level at your ear level should drop to 80 dB (107 dB-27 dB = 80 dB). That’s just common sense right? Well, actually this is just another safety myth (see “Safety Myths: What Everybody Knows Is Simply Wrong,” OH, October 1996).
Don’t believe me? Check it out. If you consult OSHA’s Figure II:5-1, Calculating Hearing Protector Attenuation of the OSHA Industrial Hygiene Technical Manual, you will find that the agency instructs its compliance industrial hygienists to first subtract 7 dB from the NRR to compensate for spectral uncertainty. This is because the acoustical spectrum of industrial noise is not a pure tone like that used during a hearing test. That means that our original 27 dB NRR now becomes: 20 (27 dB - 7 dB = 20 dB).
But we’re not done yet. The technical manual then tells us to apply a safety factor. Now, in many scientific and engineering applications, safety factors of four to seven are pretty common, but OSHA requires a safety factor of only two. In other words, we divide 20 dB by our safety factor of 2 and wind up with 10 db. So we’ve now gone from a published NRR of 27 to an effective level of protection of only 10 dB.
All of this complexity creates a public misperception as to the meaning of NRR. What people fail to understand, and some experts fail to communicate, is that the testing protocol uses a test panel that in essence receives two hearing tests: one without ear protection and one with it. The NRR is then calculated based on the results of these two tests.” (http://www.occupationalhazards.com/News/Article/33400/Does_OSHAs_Noise_Standard_Really_Protect_Peoples_Hearing.aspx)
IÂ’ve been asking why Bose doesnÂ’t publish a noise reduction rating. LetÂ’s be generous and say the Bose headset has an NRR of 30 decibels. That takes your 97dB cockpit and gives you a fly all day safe sound level of 67 decibels. Applying the procedure above, weÂ’ll take out 7dB for spectral uncertainty, leaving us with 23 dB of NRR. But now we need a safety factor, so weÂ’ll divide that by two, which leaves us with 11.5 dB of guaranteed reduction for your 1000 dollars. Your 97 dB cockpit is now good for 85.5 dB. So what will 85.5 dB do to your ears?
85.5 decibels is considered hazardous to your hearing over long durations. (http://www.audiorelief.co.uk/en/tinnitus_protection.html) For some, hearing damage will not occur, but for others, it will. For those of you who wear a Bose headset in your airplane, it is possible that you are still being exposed to damaging levels of sound. Consider wearing foam earplugs in addition to your headset.
The contender to the Bose headset was the Telex Stratus 50D. The 50D advertises 50dB of protection—especially in the lower range of prop and engine noise. Applying the same factors from above, the Stratus can reliably give 21.5dB of protection. That gives you 75.5dB inside the headset—a safe level.
As pilots, we always fly with proper safety margins. What I donÂ’t understand is why so many pilots are willing to gamble with their hearing using something as unreliable as perception to determine the effectiveness of their headset
Reggie—you have spent a great deal of time with this subject—do you have any commercial interest in any other head set companies? Your ranking?
Reggie: After reading your article, I too wonder what your real complaint is? I also wonder why you feel the need to post it here. Do you have an axe to grind or is this just your schtick? Maybe you are just trying to get hits on your web site?
I have two Bose and have been very happy. I have no interest in the company so my thoughts are only from a happy customer. I have also owned and used other NC headsets and was not as impressed and even returned one. Bose’s customer service has always been very good. I guess it is true that opinions vary.
My only complaint is that I wish they had bigger earcups. I find that after about 3 hours the back of my ear begins to get sore.
I notice that the original post, along with the link to the review, has been deleted. Does anyone know if the review itself still exists?
A strange end to a strange thread.
Read Aviation consumer. I think they did a testing of headsets and yes I think Bose was their favorite with some objective data. They did not test the Zulu at that sitting but did test it at another. It also did well
don
In reply to:
Reggie,
I read your article, and I confess I don’t get it. Your case, such as it is, boils down to an inability to find data to support Bose’s hype:Not openly disseminating measurements of an attribute you consider necessary doesn’t seem to be the same as “duping” customers. Should one surmise that your headline is intended to mislead potential readers?
FWIW, I don’t believe that Bose headsets provide any greater benefit than Lightspeeds costing half as much. But that doesn’t imply that Bose is doing anything more nefarious than finding a niche and leveraging the heck out of it.
-Sanjay
Sanjay,
Good to see this has piqued some curiosity. I’ll agree with you that my article is not yet complete. I’m saving some juicy tidbits for a little later, but first, let me offer up a story about a different product-- Airborne. Airborne was a cleverly marketed product that was hyped even by Oprah. People swore by it. It was medically proven to reduce the longevity and the severity of the common cold. The only problem was that the medical “trials” conducted were performed by two average Joes with no trials experience. A good article may be found here.Reference What I’m saying is that any headset manufacturer can make their equipment sound amazing inside of a noisy cockpit environment, but that it may not be the best thing for your hearing. People talk about how great they sound. Some people think the front row of a rock concert sounds amazing. That doesn’t mean their ears aren’t being destroyed by the sound in the process… More to come.
In reply to:
Read Aviation consumer. I think they did a testing of headsets and yes I think Bose was their favorite with some objective data. They did not test the Zulu at that sitting but did test it at another. It also did well
don
Hmmmmm…
I haven’t tried every headset out there, but of those I have tried, the Bose is simply the best. I also own a lightspeed 30G and there is no comparison. I like the lightspeed, I love the Bose.
Not only that, but the lightspeed is big and bulky compared to the Bose. It also seems more cheaply made- my primary complaint is the battery cover which does not stay put. The Bose is sturdy, it looks great, and it sounds great.
Equally important, the one time I needed Bose warranty service, Bose customer service was spectacular. Really went the extra mile.
I have no interest in Bose, don’t own stock or anything like that, just a satisfied customer who has owned 6 Bose headsets, flown a thousand hours with them, and think they rock.
Fred, I concur. In the last four years with 4 Bose headsets in frequent use, there have been two failures; both in the same headset; both in the left ear causing static with movement; one of which was after the oxymiser canula was glued on. the first time Bose repaired it;no charge took a week. The second time they replaced it, no charge took a week. My impression, based on 26 years of flying with a lot of different headsets, is that the Bose headsets are superior in every way, and have the service to match, and they hold their value. $1000 bucks new, and maybe $800 or more used, no matter how old they are.
In reply to:
Sanjay,
Good to see this has piqued some curiosity. I’ll agree with you that my article is not yet complete.
Piqued some curiosity? Sounds more like it has evoked some skepticism.
Your “article” provides no facts to support your contention that Bose has “duped” anyone. Actually it has a surprising lack of information…but no shortage of innuendo.
Bose is the last company that I’d buy speakers from, but I sure like their ANR aviation headsets. You might think this is because I’ve been "duped’ - I just think they are more comfortable and are quieter than the others I have tried.
Expensive, yep. Crazy expensive, maybe so. Is there some law against charging a high price for something?
Forgive me if I’m not on the edge of my seat waiting for the “juicy tidbits” you’ve “saved for a little later”. Oh, pleeeeezzzeeee.
(Airborne? What does that have to do with anything?)
Reggie:
I have had my hearing checked in a medically controlled setting every year since 1974. From the period 1976 - 1992 I experienced significant losses in high and some mid-ranges while wearing non-ANR headsets encased in flight helmets while flying jet aircraft in the Navy. I have also flown piston GA since 1989 and purchased my first ANR headset in 1995. Interestingly enough, in the three years between 1992 and 1995 I continued to experience hearing loss, albeit at a much slower rate of loss. Since 1995 my loss almost totally arrested until 1997 when I purchased my first Bose headset. Since that time my loss has stopped completely. Anecdotal? Yes, but there is an interesting correlation that both my last two audiologists have made note of when reviewing the results of my hearing tests. But then WTFDTK, they’re just hearing professionals. Can you refer us to any medical literature (e.g. scientifically reproduceable, peer reviewed) that points to demonstrable degradation in hearing acuity due to the sounds emitted by ANR technology? If there is a hidden issue in the fundamental technology, it should be discussed and examined carefully. Or is your argument that Bose’s physical design such that it is not doing a suitable job of reducing noise outside of the audio spectrum covered by its ANR technology?
Very best regards,
Have to jump on the Bose bandwagon as well. When the wife and kids started flying with me, bought them all Bose headsets. Keeps them comfortable…no whining…no complaining…worth every dollar
I love the bose headsets.
I must confess I like the PS-Engineering Audio panel better than the Garmin. We changed it out after getting the cirrus and I think it makes an audible difference in sound quality especially where there are different sources being heard at the same time. Example, with the Garmin we felt that if someone was talking on the intercom we would miss radio calls. With the PS unit I feel its better integrated.
I’m a professional musician so I am a little more sensitive to how things sound than most people but I think the combination of Bose and PS=Engineering makes a pretty sonically pleasing environment. How things sound is inherently subjective. We all hear differently so my opinion is not to be mistaken for anything other than my opinion.
Jon Fink
Dude, it’s because they’re quieter and they’re comfortable. All the specsmanship in the world isn’t going to convince anyone not to trust their ears. Good luck with whatever it is you are trying to sell, though.
Regards,
Tim
In reply to:
Reggie—you have spent a great deal of time with this subject—do you have any commercial interest in any other head set companies? Your ranking?
Hello Tom,
I own no interest in any headset companies. The reason I singled out Bose for this post is because they are widely used among Cirrus pilots, and I saw an opportunity for a good thought experiment. I used a Bose headset in an Extra 300L and a Cirrus SR22, but I personally didn’t experience the wow factor many others seem to have. I did recently have an opportunity to play with a Telex Stratus 50D, and I’m impressed with it. It’s hands-down the most comfortable headset I’ve ever used. Bulk is something that others have mentioned as a negative, but the headset actually provides a high degree of passive attenuation because of that bulk. The reason I spent such a great deal of time on this post is that I wanted to be thorough. I don’t want to be accused of not doing my research.