I was reading several aviation magazines this weekend and there were a few articles on glass panels from various manufacturers that were reviewed. I was thinking, if Cirrus offered one of these as the upgrade from “A” to “C” it would be something that I for one would definitely order. They are talking about a price difference of $20-30K between traditional and the new glass displays consisting of 2 or 3 flat panels offering PFD functions.
I was reading several aviation magazines this weekend and there were a few articles on glass panels from various manufacturers that were reviewed.
The May Plane and Pilot has a glowing write-up on the Lancair Columbia 300, and while the cockpit looks “cozy” it does have a nice MFD in the panel, which will display scanned charts amongst other things. Stormscope display is also standard. It seems to be much more useful than the SR20’s MFD.
I wonder, actually, if the Arnav has turned out to be a poor choice for the SR20, there seem to be better options out there, but of course it’s not so easy to change, and to do so would have delayed deliveries significantly.
But unless Arnav get their finger out, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a different MFD in the SR20 in the future.
As far as glass screens for the primary flight displays, that’s probably further off since you will probably need steam-powered backups. The Sandel electronic HSI is under consideration by Cirrus, though, and is already being fitted as original equipment by some other manufacturers.
I wonder, actually, if the Arnav has turned out to be a poor choice for the SR20, there seem to be better options out there, but of course it’s not so easy to change, and to do so would have delayed deliveries significantly.
But unless Arnav get their finger out, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a different MFD in the SR20 in the future.
From reliable sources, it looks like some of ARNAV’s slowness to get additional featurese up & running is due to CD’s diverted attentions. All on minor issues, but the delays are real.
The same source indicated that anything like the GNS 530 is note anywhere on the radar for the SR20 (I didn’t ask about the SR22) and CD seems pretty committed to ARNAV. I think that any talk about other alternatives is just that talk on this site.
now maybe if there was enough talk here…
As far as glass screens for the primary flight displays, that’s probably further off since you will probably need steam-powered backups. The Sandel electronic HSI is under consideration by Cirrus, though, and is already being fitted as original equipment by some other manufacturers.
One source says that the SR22 may be an all electric airplane. Hmmm, I wonder what that holds for the glass cockpit idea? I guess they’ll save weight & complexity on the vacumm system (& Back-up) but give some back on additional redundancy on the electrical systems.
Hi Marty,
here’s a link to an MFD manufacturer which seems to have all possible features already in place and the resolution of the screen seems way better than the ARNAV’s.
Have a look at it. Any comments are highly appreciated. The price seems to be about the same as the ARNAV’s
http://www.avidyne.com/440.htm
Placido
I wonder, actually, if the Arnav has turned out to be a poor choice for the SR20, there seem to be better options out there, but of course it’s not so easy to change, and to do so would have delayed deliveries significantly.
But unless Arnav get their finger out, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a different MFD in the SR20 in the future.
From reliable sources, it looks like some of ARNAV’s slowness to get additional featurese up & running is due to CD’s diverted attentions. All on minor issues, but the delays are real.
The same source indicated that anything like the GNS 530 is note anywhere on the radar for the SR20 (I didn’t ask about the SR22) and CD seems pretty committed to ARNAV. I think that any talk about other alternatives is just that talk on this site.
now maybe if there was enough talk here…
As far as glass screens for the primary flight displays, that’s probably further off since you will probably need steam-powered backups. The Sandel electronic HSI is under consideration by Cirrus, though, and is already being fitted as original equipment by some other manufacturers.
One source says that the SR22 may be an all electric airplane. Hmmm, I wonder what that holds for the glass cockpit idea? I guess they’ll save weight & complexity on the vacumm system (& Back-up) but give some back on additional redundancy on the electrical systems.
Hi Marty,
here’s a link to an MFD manufacturer which seems to have all possible features already in place and the resolution of the screen seems way better than the ARNAV’s.
Have a look at it. Any comments are highly appreciated. The price seems to be about the same as the ARNAV’s
Placido
Avidyne is supposed to be a terrific system, but very expensive. From my discussions with Cirrus, they seem bery committed to ARNAV.
Another question to consider is the update cost to the pilot/owner. The 2 GNS 430’3 can be updated with one database subscription. (I don’t know about the 2nd GPS in the “A” or “B” config.) The way I understand it, the ARNAV display requires its own database updates. This starts to run into serious money. I’m not sure about what others have decided, but I think I will continue to buy the Jepp approach plates via subscription as well. (As far as I know, and I may be wrong, the printed plates are still required.) That is 3 subscriptions.
I’ll keep the Garmins current and legal, and I doubt I’ll update the ARNAV more than once or twice a year as it is not required as it is not IFR certified.
At this point I’d rather look for improvements which make the plane easier to fly, more effecient and cheaper. I still think a GNS 530 in place of the ARNAV would fit these parameters - 2 screens instead of 3, more upgradability, fewer database subscriptions required.
I still place a much higher prioroty to get a 700 LBS usefull load with full fuel, and approach plate holder, and of course, getting my plane (#119) delivered!
However, having said that, compared to my 172 with an old Loran and a precedus handheld GPS, the increase incapability that comes with the SR20 will be enormous and more than enough to keep me on my toes for months, if not years, to come.
Ahh, we can all dream.
Marty
Marty,
As far as I know the ARNAV costs around 9K which is comparable to the low end Avidyne that performs everything the ARNAV does if not more. The tradeoff would be the screen size.
I appreciate your comments on the update costs which can become prohibitive for multiple systems.
Placido
Hi Marty,
here’s a link to an MFD manufacturer which seems to have all possible features already in place and the resolution of the screen seems way better than the ARNAV’s.
Have a look at it. Any comments are highly appreciated. The price seems to be about the same as the ARNAV’s
Placido
Avidyne is supposed to be a terrific system, but very expensive. From my discussions with Cirrus, they seem bery committed to ARNAV.
Another question to consider is the update cost to the pilot/owner. The 2 GNS 430’3 can be updated with one database subscription. (I don’t know about the 2nd GPS in the “A” or “B” config.) The way I understand it, the ARNAV display requires its own database updates. This starts to run into serious money. I’m not sure about what others have decided, but I think I will continue to buy the Jepp approach plates via subscription as well. (As far as I know, and I may be wrong, the printed plates are still required.) That is 3 subscriptions.
I’ll keep the Garmins current and legal, and I doubt I’ll update the ARNAV more than once or twice a year as it is not required as it is not IFR certified.
At this point I’d rather look for improvements which make the plane easier to fly, more effecient and cheaper. I still think a GNS 530 in place of the ARNAV would fit these parameters - 2 screens instead of 3, more upgradability, fewer database subscriptions required.
I still place a much higher prioroty to get a 700 LBS usefull load with full fuel, and approach plate holder, and of course, getting my plane (#119) delivered!
However, having said that, compared to my 172 with an old Loran and a precedus handheld GPS, the increase incapability that comes with the SR20 will be enormous and more than enough to keep me on my toes for months, if not years, to come.
Ahh, we can all dream.
Marty
Marty,
As far as I know the ARNAV costs around 9K which is comparable to the low end Avidyne that performs everything the ARNAV does if not more. The tradeoff would be the screen size.
I appreciate your comments on the update costs which can become prohibitive for multiple systems.
Placido
Hi Marty,
here’s a link to an MFD manufacturer which seems to have all possible features already in place and the resolution of the screen seems way better than the ARNAV’s.
Have a look at it. Any comments are highly appreciated. The price seems to be about the same as the ARNAV’s
Placido
Avidyne is supposed to be a terrific system, but very expensive. From my discussions with Cirrus, they seem bery committed to ARNAV.
Another question to consider is the update cost to the pilot/owner. The 2 GNS 430’3 can be updated with one database subscription. (I don’t know about the 2nd GPS in the “A” or “B” config.) The way I understand it, the ARNAV display requires its own database updates. This starts to run into serious money. I’m not sure about what others have decided, but I think I will continue to buy the Jepp approach plates via subscription as well. (As far as I know, and I may be wrong, the printed plates are still required.) That is 3 subscriptions.
I’ll keep the Garmins current and legal, and I doubt I’ll update the ARNAV more than once or twice a year as it is not required as it is not IFR certified.
At this point I’d rather look for improvements which make the plane easier to fly, more effecient and cheaper. I still think a GNS 530 in place of the ARNAV would fit these parameters - 2 screens instead of 3, more upgradability, fewer database subscriptions required.
I still place a much higher prioroty to get a 700 LBS usefull load with full fuel, and approach plate holder, and of course, getting my plane (#119) delivered!
However, having said that, compared to my 172 with an old Loran and a precedus handheld GPS, the increase incapability that comes with the SR20 will be enormous and more than enough to keep me on my toes for months, if not years, to come.
Ahh, we can all dream.
Marty
I guess I find the “prohibitive cost” of database updates an underwhelming argument. I believe that a full-cost 430 subscription is around $700/year. My understanding is that, at least for the 430/430 and 430/420 combo, the combined database update cost is only a bit more. If the combined cost of updating all three database were as high as $2K per year (unlikely), this still works out to $166/mo, which is probably about the cost of flying the Cirrus for an hour or two, depending on how you figure it. If you’re springing for all this stuff you’re probably flying a lot more than this.
You can also mitigate this significantly by getting one 430 subscription, sticking last month’s cartridge in the backup 430, and only updating the ARNAV when you felt like it.
I guess I find the “prohibitive cost” of database updates an underwhelming argument. I believe that a full-cost 430 subscription is around $700/year. My understanding is that, at least for the 430/430 and 430/420 combo, the combined database update cost is only a bit more. If the combined cost of updating all three database were as high as $2K per year (unlikely), this still works out to $166/mo, which is probably about the cost of flying the Cirrus for an hour or two, depending on how you figure it. If you’re springing for all this stuff you’re probably flying a lot more than this.
You can also mitigate this significantly by getting one 430 subscription, sticking last month’s cartridge in the backup 430, and only updating the ARNAV when you felt like it.
Dave, I’s sorry you are ‘underwhelmed’ by my arguments. I thought I was more persuasive than that!.
Anyway, I belsiev that you can update 2 430’s with one card, therefore only springing for one subscription. the ARNAV needs a second and paper plates and charts are #3.
If you figure $2K/yr and you fly 100 hrs/yr., that equates to an additional $20/hr. Lets assume we’re burning $2.00/gallon avgas @ a rate of 10gph (yes, I know, I’m pretty low on these figures, but the numbers work well) effectively you’re paying $4.00 per gallon!. Now, I ask; who among us would not complain about that?
Actually after biting the bullit for the $200K to buy the SR20, I’m a cheap guy!. I’m not one who is dying to find a personal jet for $1.0MM or more. I’m looking for total cost, usefulness and value.
The incremental value of 2 430’s & the ARNAV when compared to either a 430 & 530 or 2 530’s is not there, then you add the cost of an additional database, and the value (&maybe total cost) needle swings to the 530’s & no ARNAV. I won’t even bring up the cost of keeping another black box happy and running in the equation, but KISS says 2 is better than 3!
Another factor which seems to be overlooked is that after flying the SR20 in bright sun, I found the ARNAV display not the easiest to read.
I still love the plane. My complaints are more aimed at ‘fine tuning’ and trying to help Cirrus with feedback.
Marty (#119 & still looking for a 1,050 LB useful load.)