Flight training - who is responsible?

Guest Discussion
#1

I’ve been reading the various “posts” about the SR22 accident with interest. I have no idea what really happened, and who really thinks what is to blame. [end diclaimer]

However, it has led me to consider at what point a PIC can blame their training in general…

I am having a great deal of difficulty with that one, for it seems to me that once the FAA grants you your “PRIVATE PILOT - SE - LAND… etc.” that it becomes YOUR RESPONSIBILITY and yours alone to do everything in your power to fly safely. In other words, in my model the threshold standards for blaming poor training go up significantly once you have your ticket. For it seems to me that, above all else, in accepting that ticket you are accepting responsibility for being Pilot-In-Command.

Now, I can try and think of exceptions, like perhaps you are taught a specific technique that is dead-wrong for your airplane… though I still believe even that is your responsibility to question/investigate.

I also believe it is your responsibilty as PIC to decide when you are well-trained enough in a new AC, not an instructors’. You are not a student pilot, still learning the very basics of flight. You are a PIC. That to me is a very serious, sobering title to assume. And with it comes a very simple idea:

If I fly into IMC without a rating because the briefer said clear wx, my fault for not turning around. If I run out of gas because I ordered 40 gallons and only got 20 and didn’t check it - my fault… period.

I, as PIC, am completely responsible for everything WITHIN MY CONTROL that happens in this flight.

Flying is not driving, and as people have posted here before, if the moving maps, STECS, and the 430’s of the world give people the illusion that somehow flying is inherently safe and forgiving, then a lot of people are in for an unpleasant surprise. There is a reason that the best airline pilots in the world, flying planes that are maintained by professionals, planes that can land themselves, STILL train all the time.

If we are fortunate enough to become pilots, I think we must understand we are accepting a degree of responsibilty far greater than we do in other areas of our lives. In short, I think if it is within our control - it is up to us.

#2

Right on, Dean, right on.

Very well said.

Pete

I’ve been reading the various “posts” about the SR22 accident with interest. I have no idea what really happened, and who really thinks what is to blame. [end diclaimer]

However, it has led me to consider at what point a PIC can blame their training in general…

I am having a great deal of difficulty with that one, for it seems to me that once the FAA grants you your “PRIVATE PILOT - SE - LAND… etc.” that it becomes YOUR RESPONSIBILITY and yours alone to do everything in your power to fly safely. In other words, in my model the threshold standards for blaming poor training go up significantly once you have your ticket. For it seems to me that, above all else, in accepting that ticket you are accepting responsibility for being Pilot-In-Command.

Now, I can try and think of exceptions, like perhaps you are taught a specific technique that is dead-wrong for your airplane… though I still believe even that is your responsibility to question/investigate.

I also believe it is your responsibilty as PIC to decide when you are well-trained enough in a new AC, not an instructors’. You are not a student pilot, still learning the very basics of flight. You are a PIC. That to me is a very serious, sobering title to assume. And with it comes a very simple idea:

If I fly into IMC without a rating because the briefer said clear wx, my fault for not turning around. If I run out of gas because I ordered 40 gallons and only got 20 and didn’t check it - my fault… period.

I, as PIC, am completely responsible for everything WITHIN MY CONTROL that happens in this flight.

Flying is not driving, and as people have posted here before, if the moving maps, STECS, and the 430’s of the world give people the illusion that somehow flying is inherently safe and forgiving, then a lot of people are in for an unpleasant surprise. There is a reason that the best airline pilots in the world, flying planes that are maintained by professionals, planes that can land themselves, STILL train all the time.

If we are fortunate enough to become pilots, I think we must understand we are accepting a degree of responsibilty far greater than we do in other areas of our lives. In short, I think if it is within our control - it is up to us.

#3

Very well said.

(Why am I posting so much stuff today? Doing book-promo radio interviews and typing during the commercial breaks.)

#4

Dean,

I absolutely agree with you and always keep one thing in mind. I am in the plane and have more to lose than anyone who trained me or serviced the aircraft. Since others may not share my passion for my safety, I make sure that everything is right and that I am capable of the intended mission.

Roger

N706CD

I’ve been reading the various “posts” about the SR22 accident with interest. I have no idea what really happened, and who really thinks what is to blame. [end diclaimer]

However, it has led me to consider at what point a PIC can blame their training in general…

I am having a great deal of difficulty with that one, for it seems to me that once the FAA grants you your “PRIVATE PILOT - SE - LAND… etc.” that it becomes YOUR RESPONSIBILITY and yours alone to do everything in your power to fly safely. In other words, in my model the threshold standards for blaming poor training go up significantly once you have your ticket. For it seems to me that, above all else, in accepting that ticket you are accepting responsibility for being Pilot-In-Command.

Now, I can try and think of exceptions, like perhaps you are taught a specific technique that is dead-wrong for your airplane… though I still believe even that is your responsibility to question/investigate.

I also believe it is your responsibilty as PIC to decide when you are well-trained enough in a new AC, not an instructors’. You are not a student pilot, still learning the very basics of flight. You are a PIC. That to me is a very serious, sobering title to assume. And with it comes a very simple idea:

If I fly into IMC without a rating because the briefer said clear wx, my fault for not turning around. If I run out of gas because I ordered 40 gallons and only got 20 and didn’t check it - my fault… period.

I, as PIC, am completely responsible for everything WITHIN MY CONTROL that happens in this flight.

Flying is not driving, and as people have posted here before, if the moving maps, STECS, and the 430’s of the world give people the illusion that somehow flying is inherently safe and forgiving, then a lot of people are in for an unpleasant surprise. There is a reason that the best airline pilots in the world, flying planes that are maintained by professionals, planes that can land themselves, STILL train all the time.

If we are fortunate enough to become pilots, I think we must understand we are accepting a degree of responsibilty far greater than we do in other areas of our lives. In short, I think if it is within our control - it is up to us.

#5

I’ve been reading the various “posts” about the SR22 accident with interest. I have no idea what really happened, and who really thinks what is to blame. [end diclaimer]

However, it has led me to consider at what point a PIC can blame their training in general…

I am having a great deal of difficulty with that one, for it seems to me that once the FAA grants you your “PRIVATE PILOT - SE - LAND… etc.” that it becomes YOUR RESPONSIBILITY and yours alone to do everything in your power to fly safely. In other words, in my model the threshold standards for blaming poor training go up significantly once you have your ticket. For it seems to me that, above all else, in accepting that ticket you are accepting responsibility for being Pilot-In-Command.

Now, I can try and think of exceptions, like perhaps you are taught a specific technique that is dead-wrong for your airplane… though I still believe even that is your responsibility to question/investigate.

I also believe it is your responsibilty as PIC to decide when you are well-trained enough in a new AC, not an instructors’. You are not a student pilot, still learning the very basics of flight. You are a PIC. That to me is a very serious, sobering title to assume. And with it comes a very simple idea:

If I fly into IMC without a rating because the briefer said clear wx, my fault for not turning around. If I run out of gas because I ordered 40 gallons and only got 20 and didn’t check it - my fault… period.

I, as PIC, am completely responsible for everything WITHIN MY CONTROL that happens in this flight.

Flying is not driving, and as people have posted here before, if the moving maps, STECS, and the 430’s of the world give people the illusion that somehow flying is inherently safe and forgiving, then a lot of people are in for an unpleasant surprise. There is a reason that the best airline pilots in the world, flying planes that are maintained by professionals, planes that can land themselves, STILL train all the time.

If we are fortunate enough to become pilots, I think we must understand we are accepting a degree of responsibilty far greater than we do in other areas of our lives. In short, I think if it is within our control - it is up to us.

To that end:

In my estimation, there has been a tendancy to deny personel responsibility and blame others when ever something bad happens.

This lack of personel accountability is or has been pervasive over the last… oh say 8 years or so.
Does any of this sound familiar?

Is it any wonder that as soon as soon as an incident happens some run for the “It’s not my fault” door.

May be there is no connection at all!

#6

Well said. Although I too will wait for the final NTSB report to teach me the specific lessons of the Springfield accident, from what I have heard to date, this accident, unfortunately, may simply have been a tragic failure of the PIC to maintain control (stay ahead) of the aircraft (ac).

Any licensed PIC (especially one that may have had a difficult time mastering safe landing technique in the ac) who makes the decision to fly as PIC of any ac in which they are not self assure and competent, should accept the responsibility of their decision. (Hindsite always makes these decisions very clear!)

I do, of course, have great compassion for this pilot and her family and wish them the very best. We are all fallible and one ‘brain lapse’ away from a very bad day. Accidents can, and do, happen to pilots of all experience levels in any ac at any time. Whether or not ‘Springfield’ turns out to be pilot error or whatever, we should all be soberly reminded that establishing our own ‘minimums’ and sticking to them is the only safe way to fly. As taught to me by veteran instructor and examiner Norm Seward of Dallas, TX, “It is better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than to be in the air wishing you were on the ground.” Live by it.

Charles K.

I’ve been reading the various “posts” about the SR22 accident with interest. I have no idea what really happened, and who really thinks what is to blame. [end diclaimer]

However, it has led me to consider at what point a PIC can blame their training in general…

I am having a great deal of difficulty with that one, for it seems to me that once the FAA grants you your “PRIVATE PILOT - SE - LAND… etc.” that it becomes YOUR RESPONSIBILITY and yours alone to do everything in your power to fly safely. In other words, in my model the threshold standards for blaming poor training go up significantly once you have your ticket. For it seems to me that, above all else, in accepting that ticket you are accepting responsibility for being Pilot-In-Command.

Now, I can try and think of exceptions, like perhaps you are taught a specific technique that is dead-wrong for your airplane… though I still believe even that is your responsibility to question/investigate.

I also believe it is your responsibilty as PIC to decide when you are well-trained enough in a new AC, not an instructors’. You are not a student pilot, still learning the very basics of flight. You are a PIC. That to me is a very serious, sobering title to assume. And with it comes a very simple idea:

If I fly into IMC without a rating because the briefer said clear wx, my fault for not turning around. If I run out of gas because I ordered 40 gallons and only got 20 and didn’t check it - my fault… period.

I, as PIC, am completely responsible for everything WITHIN MY CONTROL that happens in this flight.

Flying is not driving, and as people have posted here before, if the moving maps, STECS, and the 430’s of the world give people the illusion that somehow flying is inherently safe and forgiving, then a lot of people are in for an unpleasant surprise. There is a reason that the best airline pilots in the world, flying planes that are maintained by professionals, planes that can land themselves, STILL train all the time.

If we are fortunate enough to become pilots, I think we must understand we are accepting a degree of responsibilty far greater than we do in other areas of our lives. In short, I think if it is within our control - it is up to us.

#7

WELL SAID…

Lawyers go home

I’ve been reading the various “posts” about the SR22 accident with interest. I have no idea what really happened, and who really thinks what is to blame. [end diclaimer]

However, it has led me to consider at what point a PIC can blame their training in general…

I am having a great deal of difficulty with that one, for it seems to me that once the FAA grants you your “PRIVATE PILOT - SE - LAND… etc.” that it becomes YOUR RESPONSIBILITY and yours alone to do everything in your power to fly safely. In other words, in my model the threshold standards for blaming poor training go up significantly once you have your ticket. For it seems to me that, above all else, in accepting that ticket you are accepting responsibility for being Pilot-In-Command.

Now, I can try and think of exceptions, like perhaps you are taught a specific technique that is dead-wrong for your airplane… though I still believe even that is your responsibility to question/investigate.

I also believe it is your responsibilty as PIC to decide when you are well-trained enough in a new AC, not an instructors’. You are not a student pilot, still learning the very basics of flight. You are a PIC. That to me is a very serious, sobering title to assume. And with it comes a very simple idea:

If I fly into IMC without a rating because the briefer said clear wx, my fault for not turning around. If I run out of gas because I ordered 40 gallons and only got 20 and didn’t check it - my fault… period.

I, as PIC, am completely responsible for everything WITHIN MY CONTROL that happens in this flight.

Flying is not driving, and as people have posted here before, if the moving maps, STECS, and the 430’s of the world give people the illusion that somehow flying is inherently safe and forgiving, then a lot of people are in for an unpleasant surprise. There is a reason that the best airline pilots in the world, flying planes that are maintained by professionals, planes that can land themselves, STILL train all the time.

If we are fortunate enough to become pilots, I think we must understand we are accepting a degree of responsibilty far greater than we do in other areas of our lives. In short, I think if it is within our control - it is up to us.

#8

I’ve been reading the various “posts” about the SR22 accident with interest. I have no idea what really happened, and who really thinks what is to blame. [end diclaimer]

However, it has led me to consider at what point a PIC can blame their training in general…

I am having a great deal of difficulty with that one, for it seems to me that once the FAA grants you your “PRIVATE PILOT - SE - LAND… etc.” that it becomes YOUR RESPONSIBILITY and yours alone to do everything in your power to fly safely. In other words, in my model the threshold standards for blaming poor training go up significantly once you have your ticket. For it seems to me that, above all else, in accepting that ticket you are accepting responsibility for being Pilot-In-Command.

Now, I can try and think of exceptions, like perhaps you are taught a specific technique that is dead-wrong for your airplane… though I still believe even that is your responsibility to question/investigate.

I also believe it is your responsibilty as PIC to decide when you are well-trained enough in a new AC, not an instructors’. You are not a student pilot, still learning the very basics of flight. You are a PIC. That to me is a very serious, sobering title to assume. And with it comes a very simple idea:

If I fly into IMC without a rating because the briefer said clear wx, my fault for not turning around. If I run out of gas because I ordered 40 gallons and only got 20 and didn’t check it - my fault… period.

I, as PIC, am completely responsible for everything WITHIN MY CONTROL that happens in this flight.

Flying is not driving, and as people have posted here before, if the moving maps, STECS, and the 430’s of the world give people the illusion that somehow flying is inherently safe and forgiving, then a lot of people are in for an unpleasant surprise. There is a reason that the best airline pilots in the world, flying planes that are maintained by professionals, planes that can land themselves, STILL train all the time.

If we are fortunate enough to become pilots, I think we must understand we are accepting a degree of responsibilty far greater than we do in other areas of our lives. In short, I think if it is within our control - it is up to us.

LETS ALL GET OUT OUR FAR/AIM AND LOOK UP FAR-91.3 “THE FINAL AUTHORITY AS TO THE OPERATION OF AN AIRCRAFT IS THE PILOT IN COMMAND” PERIOD.

RICHARD

#9

I’ve been reading the various “posts” about the SR22 accident with interest. I have no idea what really happened, and who really thinks what is to blame. [end diclaimer]

However, it has led me to consider at what point a PIC can blame their training in general…

I am having a great deal of difficulty with that one, for it seems to me that once the FAA grants you your “PRIVATE PILOT - SE - LAND… etc.” that it becomes YOUR RESPONSIBILITY and yours alone to do everything in your power to fly safely. In other words, in my model the threshold standards for blaming poor training go up significantly once you have your ticket. For it seems to me that, above all else, in accepting that ticket you are accepting responsibility for being Pilot-In-Command.

Now, I can try and think of exceptions, like perhaps you are taught a specific technique that is dead-wrong for your airplane… though I still believe even that is your responsibility to question/investigate.

I also believe it is your responsibilty as PIC to decide when you are well-trained enough in a new AC, not an instructors’. You are not a student pilot, still learning the very basics of flight. You are a PIC. That to me is a very serious, sobering title to assume. And with it comes a very simple idea:

If I fly into IMC without a rating because the briefer said clear wx, my fault for not turning around. If I run out of gas because I ordered 40 gallons and only got 20 and didn’t check it - my fault… period.

I, as PIC, am completely responsible for everything WITHIN MY CONTROL that happens in this flight.

Flying is not driving, and as people have posted here before, if the moving maps, STECS, and the 430’s of the world give people the illusion that somehow flying is inherently safe and forgiving, then a lot of people are in for an unpleasant surprise. There is a reason that the best airline pilots in the world, flying planes that are maintained by professionals, planes that can land themselves, STILL train all the time.

If we are fortunate enough to become pilots, I think we must understand we are accepting a degree of responsibilty far greater than we do in other areas of our lives. In short, I think if it is within our control - it is up to us.

Unfortunately for us other Cirri owners the number of accidents/incidents in the SRxx is what is going to affect our insurance rates. If more training, in particular the landings, will help then I believe the instructor should remain PIC until the named pilot is ready.

Carl