Engine Stall on rolloff of Runway on to Taxiway

I have a question for anyone out there if they have had this problem before. We have an SR22 SN0012 that has just over 87 flying hrs on it and we have had this problem 3 times (one about 5 months ago, one in mid April, and today). The last two times have been after an idle approach, close base turn, acft slip to reduce alt, and after a 3-4 hour flt. As soon as it lands and gets off the runway and on the taxiway the engine will cut out, but will start back up immediately. I have completed SID 97A metered & unmetered pressures are within the limits, ultrasonically cleaned the injectors, cleaned and inspected plugs, and just performed the annual/100hr Insp. We have taken it on a check flight to try a duplicate the problem (but only about an hour) did multiple approaches in the same configurations that caused the problem but to no avail could we duplicate the stall. Most of our flights are 1-2 hrs and these have not had this problem. So, has anyone else had this problem and what was done to correct it?

Also I just installed the Vibration reduction S/B and it seems to have helped to just about eliminate the vibrations that we were getting at the lower power settings and the vibrations above 2300 Rpm are also decreased to what now might be cured by dynamically balancing the prop (at least I hope).

Thanks, Carey

Carey: The only time that’s happened to me was once when I forgot to set the mixture full rich for landing. As soon as I pulled off the runway and stopped, the engine stopped. Right in front of the tower! I immediately noticed that the mixture was not all the way forward. I pushed the mixture forward and it started right up. This problem was definitely, as they say in the military, “between the ears”.

When I talked to Top Gun Aviation they said the vibration reduction kits were not available. I guess you had no problem in getting the parts from Cirrus. How much labor time is involved?

When did you first see the vibration problem? I have 115 hours on SN0148 and have not noted any vibration problem. I have been thinking of having the work done while in warranty, since the vibration has taken some time to show up on other aircraft.

Twice, I’ve had a stall post-landing – and both times I had forgotten to turn on BOOST PUMP (where are checklists when you really need them, eh?). Otherwise, never stalls on landing.

Since my engine will continue to operate with the boost pump running when the mixture is all the way off to cut-off yet stall occasionally when the boost pump is off, I suspect that my engine is vulnerable to a stall with a lean mixture and no boost pump at low RPM.

Interestingly, shortly after start up, my engine runs very rough with boost pump on and full rich mixture until I either lean mixture somewhat or turn off boost (takeoff checklist turns it back on). Of course, this was during cool mornings by Southern California standards!

After a while, the engine has taught me how it likes to be started and warmed up and we get along well now.

Cheers
Rick

I’ve never had the engine in my Cirrus quit on rollout but it happened on numerous occasions in a Baron I had 12-22 years ago. It was always a fuel flow problem and was much more common in hot weather. Is your boost pump on?

Carey, Sounds like a fuel pump problem.

Steve, I had the vibration kit installed. My Cirrus Service Center ordered about 6 of them when they became available and they called me and asked me if I wanted it installed. I had it done with an oil change and don’t know how long it took. Since I’m based at the same airport they just get the plane and put it back in the hangar when it’s done. I noted no unusual vibration prior to the kit’s installation and I still don’t. My thinking was like yours, put in the mod while in warranty.

It took the shop 3 hours to install the vibration kit. That was what they had estimated.

Stephen, The mixture was full rich, and boost pump on. About the Vibration kit and labor time…I did it when I had the airplane apart for the annual Insp and it took me about an hour to do the modifications to the landing light, muffler, and the baffles. If everything wasn’t off for the annual, add another 30-60 minutes. Our vibration started at about 40 hours flight time and progressively got worse.

I also have forgotten to turn on the boost pump for landing, although I’ve never had a problem with the engine stalling after landing.

One of the many good things I learned at the Cirrus Pilot Proficiency Program is to turn the boost pump on and off when flaps go up and down. When you put the flaps up on climbout after takeoff, turn the boost off (I say to myself, “Flaps up, boost off”). When you are abeam the numbers on downwind and put in the the first 50% of flaps, turn the boost on. On the ground, when you put the flaps up, turn the boost off.

-Mike

Yes boost pump was on and the fuel flows are correct as I just did TCM SID 97-3A.

Since you apparently know lots about service procedures and found all of the fuel-related ones to be okay, you may have an intermittent electrical fault. Recall that a number of COPA postings have mentioned problems with loose, intermittent, or otherwise poorly installed electrical connections, especially vulnerable to vibration, perhaps landing forces.

Cheers
Rick

Building on this, my Cirrus version of GUMP is FLBR (pronunced “flubber” - if the shoe fits…) Flaps, Lights, Boost, Rich.

Works for me.

Andy

Mike, If you turn off the boost at the same time as putting up the flaps on takeoff (if other words almost instantly with an SR22!) what happens if you have an engine driven fuel pump failure? I thought that one of the ‘uses’ of the manually selected boost pump was to keep the engine running if the engine driven pump failed on takeoff. Various CFI’s in the past had taught the practice of boost pump off at 1,000’ AGL. Is this CPPP method asking you to create and then accept a risk where none existed before? Gary

Andy: Our Cirrus pilot Russ taught me one thing that has been very helpful: after the checklist has been run and before taking the active runway is a little “3 check” (1) boost pump on (2) mixture rich (3) flaps 50%. I don’t have any nemonic for it, maybe you can come up with one.

Steve, if you don’t have a problem with the lights being on, flubber (F-L-B-R) would work then also.

Andy

My final pre-takeoff check is FFT: Flaps (50%), Fuel (proper tank, boost on, mixture full rich - or as appropriate for altitude), and Trim (takeoff). I figure that these are the “killer” items to double check even after the entire checklist has been run.

George
N747SJ

A couple of things re CPPP recommendations re flaps and boost pump:

  1. The “adjust the flaps and the boost pump at the same time” recommendation came from discussions a fair cross section of experienced SR2x pilots, including former WA instructors and CD flight operations personnel. The recommendation was driven both by operational considerations AND assisting with our sometimes faulty pilot memory functions - particularly on landing.

  2. However, the intent was to delay BOTH flaps and boost pump changes on takeoff until the aircraft was at a safe altitude. As discussed in the departure segment of CPPP, a relatively steep climb safely above stall speed preserves options for use of both the CAPS and Return to Airport maneuver. Leaving the flaps at 50% allows for a slightly steeper climb. Easier in the SR22 which doesn’t have the SR20’s cooling issues.

The same argument for delaying the change for the boost pump applies to the flaps as well. My prior aircraft had a history of retracting only ONE flap. Lots of fun at low altitudes. Rod Machado, for one, argues that pilots have a disturbing tendency to do things wrong (not ME of course), so that the less you do near the ground the better.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Bob

Gary:

Per the SR22 POH Emergency Procedures:

1.Fuel Pump…BOOST
Selecting BOOST on may clear the problem if a fuel vapor in the
injection lines is the problem or if the engine-driven fuel pump has
partially failed. The electric fuel pump will not provide sufficient
fuel pressure to supply the engine if the engine-driven fuel pump
completely fails.

It appears that if the engine-driven fuel pump fails we are in for a short flight!

Jim

That surprised me when I first read the POH. I thought the purpose of the electric fuel pump was to add some back up to the main fuel pump. At least it was in my Warrior.

Walt N224AZ (14 days and counting!)

Walt:

I agree. It seems rather short-sighted to me and rather unlike other decisions Cirrus made on the 22. Maybe there’s something I’m not aware of that affected their decision.

Jim