From the Aopa e-pilot mailout (presumably a press release from Commander Aircraft). Now, for only double the price of an SR20, you can have a 160kt retractable four-seater. Why burn 10gph when you can burn 14???
COMMANDER UNVEILS 115 SERIES
Commander Aircraft, located in Bethany, Oklahoma, has introduced the 115 series featuring a long list of improvements to the airframe, engine, avionics, and range capability. Improvements include a composite engine cowling, an electrically operated cowl flap, and dual Garmin GNS 430 GPS/nav/coms with moving maps. The 160-knot normally aspirated aircraft’s range was increased by using the wing from the turbocharged model, which carries 20 gallons more fuel, boosting the range to 854 nm (including IFR reserves) at 75 percent power. The Commander 115 replaces the 114 series, and has a base price of $425,500 for the normally aspirated model, and $472,500 for the turbocharged model. Commander Aircraft officials said that they delivered 13
aircraft last year and expect to build 24 in 2000. For information visit the Web site (http://www.commanderair.com ) or telephone 405/495-8080.
Just a note to let you know what a great decision we have made…
In my business, " Pilot 4 Hire " ATP, CFII and A&P I get to fly many different kind of airplanes… I have just put about 10 hours on a very nice A-36, this is a 98 model with more gismos than you can imagine. Long story short, this was a lemon, the company is giving the owner a new one because of so many problems, in the last 150 flight hours it has spent much more in maintenance.
Nice 6 seater (2 seats are only for looks unless you are taking a 30 minute flight) Soon people will start seeing Cirrus (s) around and they will be trading in their gas hungry airplanes that can only due 160 kts and cost 3 times as much. I expect Cirrus price to go up, it will still be a bargain compared with others in the market. I am pleased with Cirrus, they are turning out great machines with precision. All good things take time, if we only knew the paper work they have to go thru to make sure it is all correct and approved by our loved fellow FAA… I am ready now for mine, may have to wait for them to have one ready for me. This is life, someone is always waiting… Have a great Cirrus day.
Woor
From the Aopa e-pilot mailout (presumably a press release from Commander Aircraft). Now, for only double the price of an SR20, you can have a 160kt retractable four-seater. Why burn 10gph when you can burn 14???
COMMANDER UNVEILS 115 SERIES
Commander Aircraft, located in Bethany, Oklahoma, has introduced the 115 series featuring a long list of improvements to the airframe, engine, avionics, and range capability. Improvements include a composite engine cowling, an electrically operated cowl flap, and dual Garmin GNS 430 GPS/nav/coms with moving maps. The 160-knot normally aspirated aircraft’s range was increased by using the wing from the turbocharged model, which carries 20 gallons more fuel, boosting the range to 854 nm (including IFR reserves) at 75 percent power. The Commander 115 replaces the 114 series, and has a base price of $425,500 for the normally aspirated model, and $472,500 for the turbocharged model. Commander Aircraft officials said that they delivered 13
aircraft last year and expect to build 24 in 2000. For information visit the Web site (http://www.commanderair.com ) or telephone 405/495-8080.
Commander is a publicly traded company. About a year ago, I analysed their SEC financial filings. At that time their auditor said that in the auditor’s opinion it was unlikely that Commander could continue operating as an ongoing concern without continued outside investments from its princible owner to make up for operating losses. That owner was apparantly un-willing, or unable to continue propping the company up for much longer according to the filing. It doesn’t appear that things have improved much this year. Company information is available through the Security and Exchange Commission (SEC)or most free internet stock quote sites.
I would like to see them do well. I doubt that they will be around three years from now however.
Scott
From the Aopa e-pilot mailout (presumably a press release from Commander Aircraft). Now, for only double the price of an SR20, you can have a 160kt retractable four-seater. Why burn 10gph when you can burn 14???
COMMANDER UNVEILS 115 SERIES
Commander Aircraft, located in Bethany, Oklahoma, has introduced the 115 series featuring a long list of improvements to the airframe, engine, avionics, and range capability. Improvements include a composite engine cowling, an electrically operated cowl flap, and dual Garmin GNS 430 GPS/nav/coms with moving maps. The 160-knot normally aspirated aircraft’s range was increased by using the wing from the turbocharged model, which carries 20 gallons more fuel, boosting the range to 854 nm (including IFR reserves) at 75 percent power. The Commander 115 replaces the 114 series, and has a base price of $425,500 for the normally aspirated model, and $472,500 for the turbocharged model. Commander Aircraft officials said that they delivered 13
aircraft last year and expect to build 24 in 2000. For information visit the Web site (http://www.commanderair.com ) or telephone 405/495-8080.
The Commander announcement is a usefully stark compare-and-contrast data point, involving both:
* 2-to-1 price difference, for comparable performance;
* production rates. We've engaged here in somewhat crabby storefront speculation about how many months it will take for Cirrus to reach a one per DAY output rate, while an established, respected company seems proud of operating at two per month.
Malcolm Gladwell’s book The Tipping Point has gotten a flurry of ink recently, making the (commonsensical) point that certain trends accumulate unnoticed for a long while – and then suddenly are on everyone’s mind when some small development draws attention to them. OK, you could just call this “the straw that broke the camel’s back” and we’d know what he means. The question I have concerns the “tipping point” for awareness of the Cirrus. When some certain critical mass of the planes is out there and flying around – when the typical weekend Cessna or Bonanza pilot sees one at the airport he takes off from AND one at the airport where he arrives – then I think we might see quite rapid and widespread comparison of what the plane offers as a real alternative to Bonana, Socata, Commander, and so on. I bet when there are 100 Cirri in the active fleet they will suddenly seem to be everywhere.
I have thought for a long time that Commander would be perhaps the first GA manufacturer to throw in the towel when Cirrus got up and running at a good clip. I still think so. Watch out Socata, you’re next! Note that in the press release Commander states that they anticipate selling something like 24 planes in 2000. Commander is already only a niche player in the market.
Cirrus may well increase prices, but I for one hope they maintain an aggressive marketing posture aimed at either driving the competition from the market or forcing them to transform themselves. Lower prices mean selling more planes and I’m sure the CD marketing types can figure out in time where the top of the bell-shaped price/volume curve is.
I was surprised to hear about such dramatic quality control problems with a Bonanza. However I have been aware for some time of such issues with Cessna and to some extent Piper. Recently I was in Kansas on personal business and an individual with whom I spoke who knows the local aviation industry said that Cessna was recently experiencing something like 70-80% annual turnover in its manufacturing staff. They train them to a degree and then they leave for better paying jobs at one of the competitors. How can you build a quality product if you handle your workforce that way? It sounds like Detroit in the 1970s: ship the product and let it get fixed in the field. In addition a maintenance facility I know here in the SF Bay Area has done quite a few post-purchase inspections on “new” Cessnas and regularly has long squawk sheets on each one. Have you seen the AD and service bulletin list? And this for a $165K+ piece of equipment! Cripes!
Hats off to CD for emphasizing quality, at least so far. I for one am quite content to wait if it means being assured of a good quality plane. I’d rather have it “right” than have it “Tuesday.”
Kevin Moore #249
Just a note to let you know what a great decision we have made…
In my business, " Pilot 4 Hire " ATP, CFII and A&P I get to fly many different kind of airplanes… I have just put about 10 hours on a very nice A-36, this is a 98 model with more gismos than you can imagine. Long story short, this was a lemon, the company is giving the owner a new one because of so many problems, in the last 150 flight hours it has spent much more in maintenance.
Nice 6 seater (2 seats are only for looks unless you are taking a 30 minute flight) Soon people will start seeing Cirrus (s) around and they will be trading in their gas hungry airplanes that can only due 160 kts and cost 3 times as much. I expect Cirrus price to go up, it will still be a bargain compared with others in the market. I am pleased with Cirrus, they are turning out great machines with precision. All good things take time, if we only knew the paper work they have to go thru to make sure it is all correct and approved by our loved fellow FAA… I am ready now for mine, may have to wait for them to have one ready for me. This is life, someone is always waiting… Have a great Cirrus day.
Woor
From the Aopa e-pilot mailout (presumably a press release from Commander Aircraft). Now, for only double the price of an SR20, you can have a 160kt retractable four-seater. Why burn 10gph when you can burn 14???
COMMANDER UNVEILS 115 SERIES
Commander Aircraft, located in Bethany, Oklahoma, has introduced the 115 series featuring a long list of improvements to the airframe, engine, avionics, and range capability. Improvements include a composite engine cowling, an electrically operated cowl flap, and dual Garmin GNS 430 GPS/nav/coms with moving maps. The 160-knot normally aspirated aircraft’s range was increased by using the wing from the turbocharged model, which carries 20 gallons more fuel, boosting the range to 854 nm (including IFR reserves) at 75 percent power. The Commander 115 replaces the 114 series, and has a base price of $425,500 for the normally aspirated model, and $472,500 for the turbocharged model. Commander Aircraft officials said that they delivered 13
aircraft last year and expect to build 24 in 2000. For information visit the Web site (http://www.commanderair.com ) or telephone 405/495-8080.
I bet when there are 100 Cirri in the active fleet they will suddenly seem to be everywhere.
Interesting point, but I think there are other, more important dynamics in play as well. For one thing, Many pilots wouldn’t even consider buying a plane until it had been out for a few years to ensure the bugs are taken out and the plane is well tested on someone else’s time or sufficient parts will be available.
Secondly a new company has many swords hanging over it’s head including the forementioned new plane syndrome, and the obvious financial issues. Flying history is lettered with aircraft manufacturers who built ‘better’ planes but went out of the busines (Meyers, Republic, Grumman, swift(?), General American, etc.) due to lack of sales.
Finally, If a couple random acts, pilot errors or acts of God occur, the plane could easily get a bad reputation. Whether deserved or not, and even if the problem is corrected, this can be a kiss of death for an aviation product. For examples look at the Cessna 177RG, one of the best Cessna’s I’ve flown, or the Lycoming O320-H2AD, once modified one of the smoothest running most bullitproof 4 - cylinder engines out there. Both had premature production deaths due to problems which were corrected.
Don’t get me wrong, I am a big fan of Cirrus and as evidenced by my deposit placed in 1996, I am willing to bet on their product and financial mamagement. However, a lot of things have to fall into place before Cirrus Design is a ‘main stream’ company.
Fair points about the importance of having a couple years’ worth of fleet experience with a couple hundred airplanes. Also, about the “tipping point” significance of the early pilots’ safety record. In retrospect, it is amazing that CD was not destroyed, in a corporate sense, by the tragic Scott Anderson crash just over one year ago. Since any future crashes, of which we hope and pray there will be zero, will happen in planes (unlike Scott A’s) equipped with parachutes, that will also have some as-yet-unknown effect on the GA community.
My point was simply: when these become commonly-visible phenomena, I think there will be a new level of actually considering them as alternatives.
To my Silicon Valley eyes, Cirrus has brought to GA what the Apple Mac brought to computing in 1984. The world has shifted . . . and it will soon tip.
Fair points about the importance of having a couple years’ worth of fleet experience with a couple hundred airplanes. Also, about the “tipping point” significance of the early pilots’ safety record. In retrospect, it is amazing that CD was not destroyed, in a corporate sense, by the tragic Scott Anderson crash just over one year ago. Since any future crashes, of which we hope and pray there will be zero, will happen in planes (unlike Scott A’s) equipped with parachutes, that will also have some as-yet-unknown effect on the GA community.
My point was simply: when these become commonly-visible phenomena, I think there will be a new level of actually considering them as alternatives.