Have you guys seen/read the new Lanciar Columbia 300 ??
For $299,000 You get a production certifeid 310HP 220MPH(195 Knot) 4 place composite with modern avionics (GPS, 10.4 in Moving map) Side mounted yoke, fix tricycle gear. Yet, for all these goodies I wouldnt trade my chute equipped Cirrus.
It seems thers’s now an airplane that could challenge our beloved Cirrus.
Have you guys seen/read the new Lanciar Columbia 300 ??
For $299,000 You get a production certifeid 310HP 220MPH(195 Knot) 4 place composite with modern avionics (GPS, 10.4 in Moving map) Side mounted yoke, fix tricycle gear. Yet, for all these goodies I wouldnt trade my chute equipped Cirrus.
It seems thers’s now an airplane that could challenge our beloved Cirrus.
At $330,000.00, the Lancair, while a phenomenal aircraft, does NOT challenge the Cirrus. Most of us would wish our planes could travel at that TAS, but have opted instead for the value of an SR20. The Lancair simply lacks value, as do the rest of the aircraft in the modern Piper/Mooney/Cessna/Soccata fleet. That’s why their numbers faltered, and that’s why Cirrus outsells Lancair greater than 5 to 1. If the SR22 lists for 300K, it will falter, too, but not because it isn’t a great aircraft… it’s the concept of value that is paramount in bringing G.A. back. aa
It’s good that Lancair got past the showdown with its (Malaysian?) funders that was threatening to do it in, and it will be wonderful for everyone concerned – except perhaps Cessna, Beech, and Socata – if they can get some kind of real production flow going, as Cirrus is doing now.
It will be good for customers to have another modern airplane to choose from;
It will be good for the currently-not-interested-in-GA public to think that there’s something afoot in this industry;
It will be good for Cirrus, for the platitudinous reason that competition makes you do better, and for the real reason that you’d always prefer to be the strongest of several competitors in a field, rather than the ONLY entrant in a field. When you’re the only one, people wonder what’s wrong with you; when there are several others, and you beat them, you look all the better. And at least for now Cirrus has a strong lead in (a) pricing and (b) actual production experience, which together make it the strongest entry in the “cool airplane” field. I would imagine it holding a substantial production volume edge over Lancair for a long time.
I wish that an SR20 could go as fast as a Columbia – and still be $100k less than the Columbia’s price. But there is one other factor that Walt (I think) mentioned a few months ago, and that I’ve also heard on the airshow grapevine. A Cirrus is COMFORTABLE inside. I gather that the Lancairs are like snug versions of Mooneys – ie, very very svelte inside, in a way that makes you feel you’re getting into a glove. Anyone besides Walt seen one of these at a show?
Have you guys seen/read the new Lanciar Columbia 300 ??
For $299,000 You get a production certifeid 310HP 220MPH(195 Knot) 4 place composite with modern avionics (GPS, 10.4 in Moving map) Side mounted yoke, fix tricycle gear. Yet, for all these goodies I wouldnt trade my chute equipped Cirrus.
It seems thers’s now an airplane that could challenge our beloved Cirrus.
At $330,000.00, the Lancair, while a phenomenal aircraft, does NOT challenge the Cirrus. Most of us would wish our planes could travel at that TAS, but have opted instead for the value of an SR20. The Lancair simply lacks value, as do the rest of the aircraft in the modern Piper/Mooney/Cessna/Soccata fleet. That’s why their numbers faltered, and that’s why Cirrus outsells Lancair greater than 5 to 1. If the SR22 lists for 300K, it will falter, too, but not because it isn’t a great aircraft… it’s the concept of value that is paramount in bringing G.A. back. aa
Price or performance in itself are no good yradsticks. It’s price/performance:
Pipers/Cessna’s: ~same price, 30% slower. Cirrus wins
Lancair 300: 20% faster, but 60%+ more expensive. Cirrus wins again.
Obviously there’s more to the equation (operating costs etc), but Cirrus is best value for money in a wide range. Speaking of range, the SR22 and other family members will finetune the price/ performance against the other players I’m sure.
Happy landings!
Han Klinkspoor (#34)
Have you guys seen/read the new Lanciar Columbia 300 ??
For $299,000 You get a production certifeid 310HP 220MPH(195 Knot) 4 place composite with modern avionics (GPS, 10.4 in Moving map) Side mounted yoke, fix tricycle gear. Yet, for all these goodies I wouldnt trade my chute equipped Cirrus.
It seems thers’s now an airplane that could challenge our beloved Cirrus.
At $330,000.00, the Lancair, while a phenomenal aircraft, does NOT challenge the Cirrus. Most of us would wish our planes could travel at that TAS, but have opted instead for the value of an SR20. The Lancair simply lacks value, as do the rest of the aircraft in the modern Piper/Mooney/Cessna/Soccata fleet. That’s why their numbers faltered, and that’s why Cirrus outsells Lancair greater than 5 to 1. If the SR22 lists for 300K, it will falter, too, but not because it isn’t a great aircraft… it’s the concept of value that is paramount in bringing G.A. back. aa
I absolutely agree with you. The only way for the GA industry to revive itself to its former glory is to produce SR20 like airplanes. As it is, the SR20 is the only value oriented aircraft available and perhaps the only airplane that can entice non-pilots to start in the endeavor of flying.
Mario wrote:
I absolutely agree with you. The only way for the GA industry to revive itself to its former glory is to produce SR20 like airplanes.
I personally see the SR20 as the C172 of the 21st century. I believe it will, for quite a few years to come, define the single-engine light plane.
For all that, what is most remarkable is that there is very little about that it is revolutionary, or even original (CAPS excepted). It is, rather, evolutionary. The only reason it’s so different is that light plane evolution stopped around 1980 and the SR20 has 20 years of accumulated evolution in one package.
The one further step I’d like to see is a modern engine, and I’m confident that will come within the next few years.
… Fits like a glove. Anyone besides Walt seen one of these at a show?
I had a chance to fly one of the prototypes at Oshkosh, as I had a relatively early position (dumped in favor of Cirrus). It was indeed not as comfortable as the Cirrus, but it was fast as hell and climbed like a banshee - anything is compared to the Cutlass I fly.
Was subtly torn between Cirrus and Lancair until Lancair announced production pricing, then it was out the window. Have since taken an SR22 position also, assuming we’re getting basically the same performance plus chute and better support for the same or lower price. After all that, may end up sticking w/ SR20 after all. Can’t beat the price/performance.
It’s good that Lancair got past the showdown with its (Malaysian?) funders that was threatening to do it in, and it will be wonderful for everyone concerned – except perhaps Cessna, Beech, and Socata – if they can get some kind of real production flow going, as Cirrus is doing now.
- It will be good for customers to have another modern airplane to choose from;
- It will be good for the currently-not-interested-in-GA public to think that there’s something afoot in this industry;
- It will be good for Cirrus, for the platitudinous reason that competition makes you do better, and for the real reason that you’d always prefer to be the strongest of several competitors in a field, rather than the ONLY entrant in a field. When you’re the only one, people wonder what’s wrong with you; when there are several others, and you beat them, you look all the better. And at least for now Cirrus has a strong lead in (a) pricing and (b) actual production experience, which together make it the strongest entry in the “cool airplane” field. I would imagine it holding a substantial production volume edge over Lancair for a long time.
I wish that an SR20 could go as fast as a Columbia – and still be $100k less than the Columbia’s price. But there is one other factor that Walt (I think) mentioned a few months ago, and that I’ve also heard on the airshow grapevine. A Cirrus is COMFORTABLE inside. I gather that the Lancairs are like snug versions of Mooneys – ie, very very svelte inside, in a way that makes you feel you’re getting into a glove. Anyone besides Walt seen one of these at a show?
The Lanciar Columbia 300 claims to have a 50in cabin width and a 51in cabin height yet, it looked like a spam can in the current issue of the Plane & Pilot magazine.
Jim, I sat in one of these at MRY when it was on display with Walt’s SR20. It was a beautiful plane for sure, but astoundingly difficult to get in, and I almost did a backwards flop onto the wingroot trying to get out, too. The front seats are too far forward relative to the front door sill and the latter gets in your face immediately as you step down onto the cabin floor. Result: pilot’s CG is too far aft and a hard landing on the front seat is highly likely! Even my wife who is considerably more supple than I commented on the difficulty of entry and egress.
MUCH easier in the sr20! (Recently, Tina also got a ride in the right front seat of the SR20 courtesy of Walt, and it took a long time to get the beatific grin off her face!)
Once in the Columbia cockpit I thought it compared favorably with the sr20.
Personally, I would not choose to spend 60% more on acquisition AND fuel to go 20% faster. After all, sometimes one who loves flying like I do doesn’t mind at all spending a smidge MORE time in the air getting to one’s destination–just not so much more as one would in a 172! And I do like to see a TAS expressed in THREE digits, not TWO as in the 172/Archer with any headwind. For me, SR20 wins hands-down on the performance/value issue. But I hope Lancair is successful; I know there is a segment of the pilot community which demands speed over almost all else. In any case I think the Columbia is a no-brainer better value than Mooney Ovation or Socata TB21 or A36/Beech B36TC, for sure.
Kevin
It’s good that Lancair got past the showdown with its (Malaysian?) funders that was threatening to do it in, and it will be wonderful for everyone concerned – except perhaps Cessna, Beech, and Socata – if they can get some kind of real production flow going, as Cirrus is doing now.
- It will be good for customers to have another modern airplane to choose from;
- It will be good for the currently-not-interested-in-GA public to think that there’s something afoot in this industry;
- It will be good for Cirrus, for the platitudinous reason that competition makes you do better, and for the real reason that you’d always prefer to be the strongest of several competitors in a field, rather than the ONLY entrant in a field. When you’re the only one, people wonder what’s wrong with you; when there are several others, and you beat them, you look all the better. And at least for now Cirrus has a strong lead in (a) pricing and (b) actual production experience, which together make it the strongest entry in the “cool airplane” field. I would imagine it holding a substantial production volume edge over Lancair for a long time.
I wish that an SR20 could go as fast as a Columbia – and still be $100k less than the Columbia’s price. But there is one other factor that Walt (I think) mentioned a few months ago, and that I’ve also heard on the airshow grapevine. A Cirrus is COMFORTABLE inside. I gather that the Lancairs are like snug versions of Mooneys – ie, very very svelte inside, in a way that makes you feel you’re getting into a glove. Anyone besides Walt seen one of these at a show?
No sir ! The Lancair is no Mooney style sardine can. I have flown two Lancair Columbia 300s. The second flight with my wife and 6 foot #2 son David in the back. They were impressed, with everything including the roominess.
My opinion FWIW, Alan K. is the best businessman. Lance is the best designer. It,s in his genes. I don’t wear both a belt and suspenders but I do have deposits down on both Airplanes, just in case.
The capital A for Airplane was intentional. These are great Aircraft. These are the future. Cirrus is the Cessna/Piper of today, the Columbia has the potential to replace the Big Bo.
Cirrus, Lancair, Diamand, Micco, Williams, Rutan, and AGATE. Wow ! These are exciting times for GA. And let me also toss in the FAAs access to the aviation trust fund. Ever the optomist, I see this as enabling the infrastracture we need to enjoy our passion.
I only hope Bax is still able to understand and appreciate what is taking place.
Bob Barker
… Fits like a glove. Anyone besides Walt seen one of these at a show?
I had a chance to fly one of the prototypes at Oshkosh, as I had a relatively early position (dumped in favor of Cirrus). It was indeed not as comfortable as the Cirrus, but it was fast as hell and climbed like a banshee - anything is compared to the Cutlass I fly.
Was subtly torn between Cirrus and Lancair until Lancair announced production pricing, then it was out the window. Have since taken an SR22 position also, assuming we’re getting basically the same performance plus chute and better support for the same or lower price. After all that, may end up sticking w/ SR20 after all. Can’t beat the price/performance.
Deriving from pictures in the Plane & Pilot mag it seems that the position of the single yoke on the Lancair was way off. There’s an armrest, yet, it doesnt seem to do any good.
OOPS THAT’S GROUNDSPEED IN 3 DIGITS…
Jim, I sat in one of these at MRY when it was on display with Walt’s SR20. It was a beautiful plane for sure, but astoundingly difficult to get in, and I almost did a backwards flop onto the wingroot trying to get out, too. The front seats are too far forward relative to the front door sill and the latter gets in your face immediately as you step down onto the cabin floor. Result: pilot’s CG is too far aft and a hard landing on the front seat is highly likely! Even my wife who is considerably more supple than I commented on the difficulty of entry and egress.
MUCH easier in the sr20! (Recently, Tina also got a ride in the right front seat of the SR20 courtesy of Walt, and it took a long time to get the beatific grin off her face!)
Once in the Columbia cockpit I thought it compared favorably with the sr20.
Personally, I would not choose to spend 60% more on acquisition AND fuel to go 20% faster. After all, sometimes one who loves flying like I do doesn’t mind at all spending a smidge MORE time in the air getting to one’s destination–just not so much more as one would in a 172! And I do like to see a TAS expressed in THREE digits, not TWO as in the 172/Archer with any headwind. For me, SR20 wins hands-down on the performance/value issue. But I hope Lancair is successful; I know there is a segment of the pilot community which demands speed over almost all else. In any case I think the Columbia is a no-brainer better value than Mooney Ovation or Socata TB21 or A36/Beech B36TC, for sure.
Kevin
It’s good that Lancair got past the showdown with its (Malaysian?) funders that was threatening to do it in, and it will be wonderful for everyone concerned – except perhaps Cessna, Beech, and Socata – if they can get some kind of real production flow going, as Cirrus is doing now.
- It will be good for customers to have another modern airplane to choose from;
- It will be good for the currently-not-interested-in-GA public to think that there’s something afoot in this industry;
- It will be good for Cirrus, for the platitudinous reason that competition makes you do better, and for the real reason that you’d always prefer to be the strongest of several competitors in a field, rather than the ONLY entrant in a field. When you’re the only one, people wonder what’s wrong with you; when there are several others, and you beat them, you look all the better. And at least for now Cirrus has a strong lead in (a) pricing and (b) actual production experience, which together make it the strongest entry in the “cool airplane” field. I would imagine it holding a substantial production volume edge over Lancair for a long time.
I wish that an SR20 could go as fast as a Columbia – and still be $100k less than the Columbia’s price. But there is one other factor that Walt (I think) mentioned a few months ago, and that I’ve also heard on the airshow grapevine. A Cirrus is COMFORTABLE inside. I gather that the Lancairs are like snug versions of Mooneys – ie, very very svelte inside, in a way that makes you feel you’re getting into a glove. Anyone besides Walt seen one of these at a show?