I have narrowed down my choice of planes to the Cirrus SR20 and Socata TB20. Like both aircraft and hard to make decision as purchase price used is about the same for a low time aircraft in top condition with good avionics. Has anyone flown both models and how did you decide on Cirrus SR20 over the Socata?
I owned a TBM and while they are built well, parts pricing will kill you. Yes, Cirrus parts aren’t cheap either, but add the French markup and you will run! No comparison in my mind. Cirrus is better all the way around. That’s why Socata quit building TB’s about 2 years after Cirrus started delivering airplanes.
So you owned a TBM and sold it for a Cirrus? I am looking at a TB20 not a TBM. If I were that rich, I’d just get a Pilatus. Are parts for a TB20 really that bad? I’ve heard they are less than a Bonanza.
No, I went from a Cirrus to a TBM and now fly a Mustang. There is no way I would even consider a TB20 knowing you can get a Cirrus for close to the same $. No comparison. Go fly both of them and you will see.
Cool thanks, I will fly a Cirrus and see how I like the side yoke and flight dynamics. I’ve flown other planes like Mooney and Bonanza so have a frame of reference after I fly the Cirrus.
Ben, I’ve flown both, and i was considering Bonanza, Mooney, Commander, TB20 and Cirrus - and i bought the SR22 this year. There really is no comparison, although the TB20 is a good plane. The Cirrus is faster without the additional cost of RG, it has the nicer handling, from the Avidyne glass cockpit (2003) upwards the avionics are much more modern, the cabin is bigger and more comfortable - and it has CAPS. Of course what do you expect when asking inside COPA - but of course there’s many objective facts that make the Cirrus the better plane. Now comparing the Cirrus with a TBM (700,850) is a joke. The TBM is really a different league with a base price of 3-4 G5s, you could also argue that Airbus spare parts are more expensive than Cirrus’. I do
not think that TB20 parts are more expensive than Cirrus by the way.
I would like to add that the transition to the side yoke is a NON EVENT, just as Thomas has pointed out. I’ve flown my Warrior for 20 years and the transition to the SR22 was not a simple “check out” and it is definitely something to do in a serious concentrated way. You really have to learn a lot of things (glass cockpit, electrical system…) and you have to get used to and practice a couple of things (for me taxiing was an issue in the first hours was an issue but especially planning and executing descents from cruise… coming home from my first couple of flights to my home airport i arrived 3000 feet to high and with a ground speed of +200 knots … and had to do two three sixties before even thinking about an approach. You quickly learn to use the VNAV feature of the 430 for descent planning … which you had never needed in the Warrior. So there’s many things to learn and practice (which is the reason we want these planes, right?)… but really, the SIDE YOKE is nothing you will think about longer than the first 5 minutes… you just use it intuitievly. The very quick electric trim takes some time to get used to, but no big deal in my point of view. If you are used to flying with your left hand it’s really almost the same… think of the side yoke as one half of a classic yoke … and it’s much more comfortable than that.
Spins (Thomas pointed out all the important facts): EASA spun the SR20/22 about 60 times (i have the document somewhere at home but you can find it online)… and there was no problem to get it out of the spin. What’s really more difficult is to get it INTO a spin in the first place. You really have to brutally force it (which i have not tried but was told by factory test pilots) and it’s almost as tame in the stall as a Skyhawk or Warrior. The myth that the SR2x “could not have been certified without CAPS” seems to come from the Cessna (and formerly Columbia) corner. At least I was told stuff like that when i visited those companies back then when the SR20/22 first came out. Like other conspiracy theories it will NEVER really die, there will alway be somebody who will bring it up again.
Maybe parts are the same where you are at, but not in the US. Cirrus parts will be easier to get and cheaper. At no point was I comparing cirrus parts vs a TBM. I’m just telling you that I know Socata’s part game from working with them for 7 years and they really gouge the customer. Parts on my TBM were as much as double compared to a King Air.
TB20 is a very nice aircraft, good performance, one of the better example of last century aircrafts!!! How it compares technologically against an SR22, is very simple, the difference between a 70s Ford Mustang and 2010s Ford Mustang.
The side stick is very natural, in fact most people with previous flying experience get the hang of it during their first flight.
I am not a biased person as I do have a fair few hours in Yoke and Joy Stick(!) type, but at this moment of time if I was given the choice I would go for the SR22, this decision is purely based on the aircraft itself rather than the running costs.
SR22s are more expensive to buy than TB20s, with some Cirrus parts being extremely expensive for what they are, but at the end of the day you get what you pay for. On a separate note French summer holiday will effect the part supplies as they take a long break, so if you needed something specific during the summer time, you may have to wait for good 6 weeks before you get it!!!
you cannot compare TBM prices with TB20 prices, that’s all i am saying.
Cirrus part prices i know about:
- new engine mounts: 5000 dollars
- “gts” decal (1) 475 dollars
- 1 door panel with armrest: 1400 dollars
- set of wheel pants: 5000 dollars
I think this is the one area where Cirrus Owners can put pressure on Cirrus Aircraft to be more reasonable with their pricing.
I don’t think “expensive aircraft with expensive maintenance” could appeal to most private owners any more, so here is a typical scenario where owners should be raising their objections to Cirrus and demand a fairer pricing. If you say nothing, you will not get value for the money, it is as simple as that.
I recently priced a set of Rosen sun-visors from one of the Cirrus’s Service centre and they quoted me nearly $1000, eventually I managed to buy the kit with the certification from one of the manufacturer’s distributor in UK for less than half the price. The moral is, 60% profit margin by Cirrus and their Service Centre is acceptable or not? not to me.
So much we could change or improve in our aircraft, but because of the high costs, we put them on hold, I am sure there are many like us, I don’t think Cirrus have thought about their price structure through.
check my thread about the “gts” decal … you will see that not everybody shares our opinion. I personally think that although the SR22 is my dream airplane (and after many years of dreaming i bought it this year) the part prices are ridiculous. As a longtime aviation journalist who has visited ALL companies who build certified aircraft i KNOW that the parts are expensive for a very good reason. Can i understand that a set of hand built wheel pants costs 5000 dollars? Of course i can. Can i understand that a gts decal made of cheap foil worth 50 C costs 475 plus tax plus 200 to apply. DEFINITELY NOT. That’s where the company starts hurting their future business. There IS a world outside silicone valley! I for one am very lucky. I own a company that enables me to fulfill my dream of a (used) SR22 plus some nice upgrades. I had no problem spending 15.000 dollars on a new autopilot and some add ons - and i pay 2000 dollars per year to Jeppesen for some databases with a lot of data should actually be FREE (IFR approach charts). But when a Cirrus decal costs between 50 to 100 times the price of a Mercedes decal - i call that unacceptable.
Guys, I think he asked about a TB20 versus an **SR20. **There is no comparison in the performance of a TB20 to an SR20, the TB20 is more along the lines of performance of the NA SR22. TB20 has 1250 lb useful load, climbs over 1150 fpm at gross and has a service ceiling of FL200 and if I recall, cruises about 165 KTAS.
Correct, for my price budget about 120-150k, I can only afford either a TB20 or a Cirrus SR20. Good SR22 are like 200-300k for one in decent shape without a run out engine.
Also, as a low time pilot, no one that I am aware of will insure me on an SR22 unless I want to pay 15k for the first year of insurance! A local FBO has SR20 for checkout so my next logical step after I have my PPL is to get checked out in the club Cirrus SR20 and then make a decision on how much I prefer flying it over the TB20.
Sorry about referring to SR22 instead of SR20. SR20 is a slower version of SR22’s with reduced performance and range, otherwise similar.
Learn to fly the SR20 and build the time and experience and when the time is right move to SR22 with ease. So there will be at least one more easy option available to you in future, when it comes to upgrading to a faster aircraft.
TB20 is a complex aircraft with bigger engine than the SR20, so what is the insurance cost for a TB20??
Isn’t the TB20 the non turbo version? I thought the TB21 was the turbocharged version. The TB20 doesn’t do 165 KTAS IIRC. It goes about the same speeds as a SR20 in real life. The TB20 will cost more to maintain due to retractable landing gear. On top of that, it is much uglier which is enough for me to go with the Cirrus…[;)]
Yes TB20 is the non turbo version of the Socata and cruises at 150-160 kts similar in performance to the SR20. Price point for purchase is similar as well. Insurance is 5k for first year in the TB20 not sure about a SR20 insurance cost. One reason I considered the Socata is that I want to eventually obtain my commercial and CFI ratings and you must do this in a retract complex aircraft. Never heard of anyone doing this in a Cirrus with fixed gear.
The Socata airplane will make the commercial and CFI stuff easier for sure. You can do most of the commercial in your Cirrus and then rent a retract for the checkride and a couple lessons. I did my commercial and Multi-engine at the same time. Found it easier to get both ratings at the same time in a rented Cessna 310. It would be highly unlikely that you would ever use the commercial in anything but a multi-engine airplane anyway.
My bet is the insurance will be a little cheaper on the SR20 because it is a fixed gear airplane. No clue though.
Let us know if the TB20 will actually do 150-160 KTAS. I doubt it. I think the turbocharged TB21 only does 165-170. I’m betting the TB20 is more like a 140-150 KTAS.
I flew a Socata TB20 this weekend and GS was 160 and IAS was 150.