ARNAV Engine Monitoring - DO NOT BUY!

Guest Discussion
1

I have waited, vented, and now I must go public. I will say this as loudly and publicly as possible:

DO NOT BUY THE ARNAV ENGINE MONITORING UNTIL IT IS DEBUGGED BY ARNAV, HAS CORRECT INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS AND AN OWNERÂ’S MANUAL THAT IS EVEN MODERATELY INFORMATIVE!

Sorry, but ARNAV has to learn that for the most part, we are PILOTS, not engineers. We want to fly our planes safely and efficiently, not spend hours learning an incomplete system while, without compensation, helping the company debug and perfect itÂ’s products which it is selling. If you buy this product now, you are a beta tester.

Here are just a few examples:

  • ARNAVÂ’s OwnerÂ’s Manual (OM) includes pictures but absolutely no discussion of the symbology.

  • Other than a few secondary functions, there is no discussion of how to use any of the features.

  • The installation, which is clearly marked for the SR20 and SR22, is really for the SR20. It does not even acknowledge the presence Sandel EHIS which is an important component.

  • It does not even mention a change to the accuracy of the stock CHT gauge.

  • They updated the display (windows style buttons) but there is absolutely no discussion of any changes.

  • They have a “fuel required to next waypoint” in two places and they disagree.

Our only leverage is the power of the pocketbook. Installed, this product costs about twice what the competition does, and except for some minor features, is inferior. One of the main reasons I purchased it is that CirrusÂ’s vision and design of the SRÂ’s leaves minimal panel space available for additional instrumentation. I was willing to pay a little to follow this vision and not hack up my panel.

Cirrus is not to blame for this product, but they do have to make some strategic decisions soon. In my opinion these are:

  1. Do we stick with our vision of the landscape 10" display even if there are no products on the market which meet our requirements?

  2. Shall we continue to sell our aircraft with an inferior product which is poorly supported by a company which will has to date, and may continue to, reflect poorly on own products and us as a company?

  3. What do we owe our existing customers who have bought these aircraft, at least in part, because of wheat we, Cirrus, have promised and essentially failed to deliver?

I have posted this as a challenge, primarily for ARNAV, but also for Cirrus. I will talk to ARNAV early in the week, and give them a chance to fix the situation. Either way, I will continue to post my experiences.

Until, then, I strongly recommend that you wait for a purchase of an engine monitoring system. If you cannot wait and are not interested in helping ARNAV debug their system, PLEASE do not buy the ARNAV system.

Hopefully, I will eat these words. There is nothing I would rather do than print a retraction as it would mean I am happy with my purchase.

Marty

2

You will end up paying your installer for the extra time it will take them to install the unit with incomplete and inacurate instructions. they will spend hours on the phone with Cirrus and ARNAV.

3

I have waited, vented, and now I must go public. I will say this as loudly and publicly as possible:

DO NOT BUY THE ARNAV ENGINE MONITORING UNTIL IT IS DEBUGGED BY ARNAV, HAS CORRECT INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS AND AN OWNERÂ’S MANUAL THAT IS EVEN MODERATELY INFORMATIVE!

Sorry, but ARNAV has to learn that for the most part, we are PILOTS, not engineers. We want to fly our planes safely and efficiently, not spend hours learning an incomplete system while, without compensation, helping the company debug and perfect itÂ’s products which it is selling. If you buy this product now, you are a beta tester.

Here are just a few examples:

  • ARNAVÂ’s OwnerÂ’s Manual (OM) includes pictures but absolutely no discussion of the symbology.
  • Other than a few secondary functions, there is no discussion of how to use any of the features.
  • The installation, which is clearly marked for the SR20 and SR22, is really for the SR20. It does not even acknowledge the presence Sandel EHIS which is an important component.
  • It does not even mention a change to the accuracy of the stock CHT gauge.
  • They updated the display (windows style buttons) but there is absolutely no discussion of any changes.
  • They have a “fuel required to next waypoint” in two places and they disagree.

Our only leverage is the power of the pocketbook. Installed, this product costs about twice what the competition does, and except for some minor features, is inferior. One of the main reasons I purchased it is that CirrusÂ’s vision and design of the SRÂ’s leaves minimal panel space available for additional instrumentation. I was willing to pay a little to follow this vision and not hack up my panel.

Cirrus is not to blame for this product, but they do have to make some strategic decisions soon. In my opinion these are:

  1. Do we stick with our vision of the landscape 10" display even if there are no products on the market which meet our requirements?
  1. Shall we continue to sell our aircraft with an inferior product which is poorly supported by a company which will has to date, and may continue to, reflect poorly on own products and us as a company?
  1. What do we owe our existing customers who have bought these aircraft, at least in part, because of wheat we, Cirrus, have promised and essentially failed to deliver?

I have posted this as a challenge, primarily for ARNAV, but also for Cirrus. I will talk to ARNAV early in the week, and give them a chance to fix the situation. Either way, I will continue to post my experiences.

Until, then, I strongly recommend that you wait for a purchase of an engine monitoring system. If you cannot wait and are not interested in helping ARNAV debug their system, PLEASE do not buy the ARNAV system.

Hopefully, I will eat these words. There is nothing I would rather do than print a retraction as it would mean I am happy with my purchase.

Marty

Marty:

You are 100% correct on this issue. I hope after or before you talk to ARNAV, you also talk directly with Cirrus.This post alone, even though Cirrus sees it regularly, is not the same as direct communication with them. I have talked to Ian Bentley on a few occaisions and he seems genuinely interested in hearing about ALL customer problems. Some he refers to other folks but I have been impressed by their willingness to take a lot of time to listen and respond to our concerns. With ARNAV there is a bigger problem for Cirrus. Arnav is a supplier so Cirrus cannot control their operations. But enough complaints from customers can be used as evidence by Cirrus to persuade Arnav to “clean up their act”. I am sure there are contractual issues between Cirrus and Arnav that do not allow Cirrus to comment publically. But if they hear more from us, I think we will see results.

This is the most customer friendly company I have ever seen in any area aviation related. But they can only respond to direct experience from their customers. The SR20 website is more of a forum for us abd is not a leigitimate tool to communicate DIRECTLY with Cirrus.

Arnav MUST get better or go out of business. Since Cirrus IS Arnav’s biggest business. they are, with our supporting evidence, the best answer to the problem.
For all those already complaining that Cirrus has not done enough, I would say be careful. We do not know what Cirrus has already tried to do nor do we know what they current strategy is toward Arnav. I am sure they would not, nor should they, comment publically. I may be wrong but I have confidence that Cirrus will do what it can within their constriants, and with OUR help, to put pressure on Arnav. We have already seen this with TCM and the engine problems. So please make sure they know of your experience.

Brian

4

DO NOT BUY THE ARNAV ENGINE MONITORING UNTIL IT IS DEBUGGED BY ARNAV, HAS CORRECT INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS AND AN OWNERÂ’S MANUAL THAT IS EVEN MODERATELY INFORMATIVE!

You convinced me. I am somewhat of a techno freak (we will be getting the SR20 with stormscope, Sandel, and probably SkyWatch), but you have killed any thoughts of getting the ARNAV engine monitor.

5

I have the engine monitoring installed in my SR22 and it works. However, it was not without pain and I think the installation is going to cost me about $1.5k to $2k, partly due to incorrect instructions from Arnav. Also, my Sandel no longer displays Stormscope data.

It has been painful for both me and Top Gun Aviation.

On the BFG Traffic package, I’m going to wait at least a month after others have had it installed and see what they think. I know that I like the BFG system – I’ve used it. But I don’t know how well the integration with the plane will go.

I was on the bleeding edge with the engine monitoring and I don’t want to repeat that.

However, others experienced more pain than I did. I benefited greatly from someone else who was in front of me and debugged the swapped RS-232 pin problem (thanks, btw).

So has anyone else noticed any problems with the Sandel after the engine monitoring installation?

FWIW, I have had a good experience dealing with the Arnav people themselves, though if their comrades had done a better job, I wouldn’t have needed to call Arnav technical support in the first place.

I have waited, vented, and now I must go public. I will say this as loudly and publicly as possible:

DO NOT BUY THE ARNAV ENGINE MONITORING UNTIL IT IS DEBUGGED BY ARNAV, HAS CORRECT INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS AND AN OWNERÂ’S MANUAL THAT IS EVEN MODERATELY INFORMATIVE!

Sorry, but ARNAV has to learn that for the most part, we are PILOTS, not engineers. We want to fly our planes safely and efficiently, not spend hours learning an incomplete system while, without compensation, helping the company debug and perfect itÂ’s products which it is selling. If you buy this product now, you are a beta tester.

Here are just a few examples:

  • ARNAVÂ’s OwnerÂ’s Manual (OM) includes pictures but absolutely no discussion of the symbology.
  • Other than a few secondary functions, there is no discussion of how to use any of the features.
  • The installation, which is clearly marked for the SR20 and SR22, is really for the SR20. It does not even acknowledge the presence Sandel EHIS which is an important component.
  • It does not even mention a change to the accuracy of the stock CHT gauge.
  • They updated the display (windows style buttons) but there is absolutely no discussion of any changes.
  • They have a “fuel required to next waypoint” in two places and they disagree.

Our only leverage is the power of the pocketbook. Installed, this product costs about twice what the competition does, and except for some minor features, is inferior. One of the main reasons I purchased it is that CirrusÂ’s vision and design of the SRÂ’s leaves minimal panel space available for additional instrumentation. I was willing to pay a little to follow this vision and not hack up my panel.

Cirrus is not to blame for this product, but they do have to make some strategic decisions soon. In my opinion these are:

  1. Do we stick with our vision of the landscape 10" display even if there are no products on the market which meet our requirements?
  1. Shall we continue to sell our aircraft with an inferior product which is poorly supported by a company which will has to date, and may continue to, reflect poorly on own products and us as a company?
  1. What do we owe our existing customers who have bought these aircraft, at least in part, because of wheat we, Cirrus, have promised and essentially failed to deliver?

I have posted this as a challenge, primarily for ARNAV, but also for Cirrus. I will talk to ARNAV early in the week, and give them a chance to fix the situation. Either way, I will continue to post my experiences.

Until, then, I strongly recommend that you wait for a purchase of an engine monitoring system. If you cannot wait and are not interested in helping ARNAV debug their system, PLEASE do not buy the ARNAV system.

Hopefully, I will eat these words. There is nothing I would rather do than print a retraction as it would mean I am happy with my purchase.

Marty

6

I have waited, vented, and now I must go public. I will say this as loudly and publicly as possible:

DO NOT BUY THE ARNAV ENGINE MONITORING UNTIL IT IS DEBUGGED BY ARNAV, HAS CORRECT INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS AND AN OWNERÂ’S MANUAL THAT IS EVEN MODERATELY INFORMATIVE!

Sorry, but ARNAV has to learn that for the most part, we are PILOTS, not engineers. We want to fly our planes safely and efficiently, not spend hours learning an incomplete system while, without compensation, helping the company debug and perfect itÂ’s products which it is selling. If you buy this product now, you are a beta tester.

Here are just a few examples:

  • ARNAVÂ’s OwnerÂ’s Manual (OM) includes pictures but absolutely no discussion of the symbology.
  • Other than a few secondary functions, there is no discussion of how to use any of the features.
  • The installation, which is clearly marked for the SR20 and SR22, is really for the SR20. It does not even acknowledge the presence Sandel EHIS which is an important component.
  • It does not even mention a change to the accuracy of the stock CHT gauge.
  • They updated the display (windows style buttons) but there is absolutely no discussion of any changes.
  • They have a “fuel required to next waypoint” in two places and they disagree.

Our only leverage is the power of the pocketbook. Installed, this product costs about twice what the competition does, and except for some minor features, is inferior. One of the main reasons I purchased it is that CirrusÂ’s vision and design of the SRÂ’s leaves minimal panel space available for additional instrumentation. I was willing to pay a little to follow this vision and not hack up my panel.

Cirrus is not to blame for this product, but they do have to make some strategic decisions soon. In my opinion these are:

  1. Do we stick with our vision of the landscape 10" display even if there are no products on the market which meet our requirements?
  1. Shall we continue to sell our aircraft with an inferior product which is poorly supported by a company which will has to date, and may continue to, reflect poorly on own products and us as a company?
  1. What do we owe our existing customers who have bought these aircraft, at least in part, because of wheat we, Cirrus, have promised and essentially failed to deliver?

I have posted this as a challenge, primarily for ARNAV, but also for Cirrus. I will talk to ARNAV early in the week, and give them a chance to fix the situation. Either way, I will continue to post my experiences.

Until, then, I strongly recommend that you wait for a purchase of an engine monitoring system. If you cannot wait and are not interested in helping ARNAV debug their system, PLEASE do not buy the ARNAV system.

Hopefully, I will eat these words. There is nothing I would rather do than print a retraction as it would mean I am happy with my purchase.

Marty

Marty:

You are 100% correct on this issue. I hope after or before you talk to ARNAV, you also talk directly with Cirrus.This post alone, even though Cirrus sees it regularly, is not the same as direct communication with them. I have talked to Ian Bentley on a few occaisions and he seems genuinely interested in hearing about ALL customer problems. Some he refers to other folks but I have been impressed by their willingness to take a lot of time to listen and respond to our concerns. With ARNAV there is a bigger problem for Cirrus. Arnav is a supplier so Cirrus cannot control their operations. But enough complaints from customers can be used as evidence by Cirrus to persuade Arnav to “clean up their act”. I am sure there are contractual issues between Cirrus and Arnav that do not allow Cirrus to comment publically. But if they hear more from us, I think we will see results.

This is the most customer friendly company I have ever seen in any area aviation related. But they can only respond to direct experience from their customers. The SR20 website is more of a forum for us abd is not a leigitimate tool to communicate DIRECTLY with Cirrus.

Arnav MUST get better or go out of business. Since Cirrus IS Arnav’s biggest business. they are, with our supporting evidence, the best answer to the problem.
For all those already complaining that Cirrus has not done enough, I would say be careful. We do not know what Cirrus has already tried to do nor do we know what they current strategy is toward Arnav. I am sure they would not, nor should they, comment publically. I may be wrong but I have confidence that Cirrus will do what it can within their constriants, and with OUR help, to put pressure on Arnav. We have already seen this with TCM and the engine problems. So please make sure they know of your experience.

Brian

arty, Thanks for sharing this info. I think I’m going to go with the Shadin fuel computer and the Insight engine monitor. I had both in my Trinidad and they worked PERFECT. The Shadin was never more than 1/10th of a gal off on the fuel. I could tell the fuel truck exactly much it would take to top it off. I think I will put them in the dash panel under the engine instrument panel, as there is nothing behind it.

Brian is right, the Cirrus service is fantastic. My guess is, they are looking at other big screen suppliers. They made the right…and only choice they could when they started, and I’m sure they don’t want to jump from the frying pan into the fire. They will make a careful evaluation before switching screens and I would bet they have them all in the back room now.

Denis

7

Appreciate Marty’s warning about the Arnav engine system, and agree with Brian that Cirrus should hear this directly (rather than obliquely through monitoring the site).

8

Hey, wait a minute!
I thought all you Cirrus buyers were non-techno, new-to-aviation, Apple Macintosh, press-the-button-and-get-the-banana types who couldn’t care less about technology, who think the Arnav is just peachy-keen (or at least “good enough”), and who would never even think of adding some new gadget before Currus was willing to offer it (if ever).
After all, you guys are the wave of the future for GA, aren’t you?
So, what are you doing here, Art? :wink:

Joe

You convinced me. I am somewhat of a techno freak (we will be getting the SR20 with stormscope, Sandel, and probably SkyWatch), but you have killed any thoughts of getting the ARNAV engine monitor.

9

For one who said he didn’t subscribe to the Cirrus religion, why are you still making loud noises from the front pew? You are hereby excommunicated!

Hey, wait a minute!

I thought all you Cirrus buyers were non-techno, new-to-aviation, Apple Macintosh, press-the-button-and-get-the-banana types who couldn’t care less about technology, who think the Arnav is just peachy-keen (or at least “good enough”), and who would never even think of adding some new gadget before Currus was willing to offer it (if ever).

After all, you guys are the wave of the future for GA, aren’t you?

So, what are you doing here, Art? :wink:

Joe

You convinced me. I am somewhat of a techno freak (we will be getting the SR20 with stormscope, Sandel, and probably SkyWatch), but you have killed any thoughts of getting the ARNAV engine monitor.

10

So, what are you doing here, Art? :wink:

After the 3rd SR20 delay, I wanted to dump them and get a TB20. My partner owns Cirrus stock and he is the one with the hanger so I am expecting another SR20 delay instead of flying new TB20.

11

Joe, now you wait a minute and think about it.

Just stop comparing the Arnav to Macintosh. If it would be the like, it would be perfectly doing what it’s supposed to do: navigation, topography, sectionals and approaches, montitoring engine + traffic + weather, +++ .

Fact is, it’s a DOS dinosaur without having developed since the last century. It will be outsourced like the dinos by evolution.

After this a Mac might take it’s place :wink:

Wilfried

12

I guess you were wrong!

Hey, wait a minute!

I thought all you Cirrus buyers were non-techno, new-to-aviation, Apple Macintosh, press-the-button-and-get-the-banana types who couldn’t care less about technology, who think the Arnav is just peachy-keen (or at least “good enough”), and who would never even think of adding some new gadget before Currus was willing to offer it (if ever).

After all, you guys are the wave of the future for GA, aren’t you?

So, what are you doing here, Art? :wink:

Joe

You convinced me. I am somewhat of a techno freak (we will be getting the SR20 with stormscope, Sandel, and probably SkyWatch), but you have killed any thoughts of getting the ARNAV engine monitor.

13

Bless me, Father, for I have sinned.
JOe

For one who said he didn’t subscribe to the Cirrus religion, why are you still making loud noises from the front pew? You are hereby excommunicated!

Hey, wait a minute!

I thought all you Cirrus buyers were non-techno, new-to-aviation, Apple Macintosh, press-the-button-and-get-the-banana types who couldn’t care less about technology, who think the Arnav is just peachy-keen (or at least “good enough”), and who would never even think of adding some new gadget before Currus was willing to offer it (if ever).

After all, you guys are the wave of the future for GA, aren’t you?

So, what are you doing here, Art? :wink:

Joe

You convinced me. I am somewhat of a techno freak (we will be getting the SR20 with stormscope, Sandel, and probably SkyWatch), but you have killed any thoughts of getting the ARNAV engine monitor.

14

Which, of course, is my point.
Joe

I guess you were wrong!

Hey, wait a minute!

I thought all you Cirrus buyers were non-techno, new-to-aviation, Apple Macintosh, press-the-button-and-get-the-banana types who couldn’t care less about technology, who think the Arnav is just peachy-keen (or at least “good enough”), and who would never even think of adding some new gadget before Currus was willing to offer it (if ever).

After all, you guys are the wave of the future for GA, aren’t you?

So, what are you doing here, Art? :wink:

Joe

You convinced me. I am somewhat of a techno freak (we will be getting the SR20 with stormscope, Sandel, and probably SkyWatch), but you have killed any thoughts of getting the ARNAV engine monitor.