Arnav display

Guest Discussion
1

I had a colorfull conversation with my avionics shop today. I went there concerning a radio in my current airplane and was asking him about a stormscope for the SR20 and was showing him the avionics in it from the factory.

The conversation went something like this:

“Tell them you do not want the ICDS-2000, it is a piece of @#%." I said that it was necessary for the plane’s type certificate somehow or so I had heard. He said "that sounds like horse @#%. That is one pile of #%&* display”, an a few other discriptive comments about wasted money.

The rest of the avionics past his cigar chewing x-military muster but I think Arnav his a real public relations problem, at least with this shop.

Regards Mike

2

Can you ask your guy why the ARNAV is such a piece of @#%? Has he ever seen one before? (I though the ICDS-2000 was unique to Cirrus so far.) Or does he consider all ARNAV products to be @#%? Is it the lack of function, or is it build quality? The more we know, the more informed we can be in our pleas to Cirrus. - Thanks, Gary

I had a colorfull conversation with my avionics shop today. I went there concerning a radio in my current airplane and was asking him about a stormscope for the SR20 and was showing him the avionics in it from the factory.

The conversation went something like this:

“Tell them you do not want the ICDS-2000, it is a piece of @#%." I said that it was necessary for the plane’s type certificate somehow or so I had heard. He said "that sounds like horse @#%. That is one pile of #%&* display”, an a few other discriptive comments about wasted money.

The rest of the avionics past his cigar chewing x-military muster but I think Arnav his a real public relations problem, at least with this shop.

Regards Mike

3

He sounds like the same cigar chewing idiot that told me he would rather die than fly a plane with a built in chute.You might want to look at the duct taped together pile of junk he flies. Could be just sour grapes.

4

I had a colorfull conversation with my avionics shop today. I went there concerning a radio in my current airplane and was asking him about a stormscope for the SR20 and was showing him the avionics in it from the factory.

The conversation went something like this:

“Tell them you do not want the ICDS-2000, it is a piece of @#%." I said that it was necessary for the plane’s type certificate somehow or so I had heard. He said "that sounds like horse @#%. That is one pile of #%&* display”, an a few other discriptive comments about wasted money.

The rest of the avionics past his cigar chewing x-military muster but I think Arnav his a real public relations problem, at least with this shop.

Regards Mike

In Southern California, I’m in and out of “B” airspace and near restricted areas and moas all the time. I find the ARNAV display very helpful in finding my way around this complex airspace in vfr conditions.

5

Can you ask your guy why the ARNAV is such a piece of @#%? Has he ever seen one before? (I though the ICDS-2000 was unique to Cirrus so far.) Or does he consider all ARNAV products to be @#%? Is it the lack of function, or is it build quality? The more we know, the more informed we can be in our pleas to Cirrus. - Thanks, Gary

I had a colorfull conversation with my avionics shop today. I went there concerning a radio in my current airplane and was asking him about a stormscope for the SR20 and was showing him the avionics in it from the factory.

The conversation went something like this:

“Tell them you do not want the ICDS-2000, it is a piece of @#%." I said that it was necessary for the plane’s type certificate somehow or so I had heard. He said "that sounds like horse @#%. That is one pile of #%&* display”, an a few other discriptive comments about wasted money.

The rest of the avionics past his cigar chewing x-military muster but I think Arnav his a real public relations problem, at least with this shop.

Regards Mike

Mike, I hope you did not tell your out dated piece of @#$% a&p about the parachute. I’m sure that would be a neat conversation. As for the arnav now that I have it I would prefer never to fly with out it!..Ed

p.s. don’t tell him they used a computer to design the plane, it could be the last straw and we don’t want to see you get hurt!

6

Can you ask your guy why the ARNAV is such a piece of @#%? Has he ever seen one before? (I though the ICDS-2000 was unique to Cirrus so far.) Or does he consider all ARNAV products to be @#%? Is it the lack of function, or is it build quality? The more we know, the more informed we can be in our pleas to Cirrus. - Thanks, Gary

I had a colorfull conversation with my avionics shop today. I went there concerning a radio in my current airplane and was asking him about a stormscope for the SR20 and was showing him the avionics in it from the factory.

The conversation went something like this:

“Tell them you do not want the ICDS-2000, it is a piece of @#%." I said that it was necessary for the plane’s type certificate somehow or so I had heard. He said "that sounds like horse @#%. That is one pile of #%&* display”, an a few other discriptive comments about wasted money.

The rest of the avionics past his cigar chewing x-military muster but I think Arnav his a real public relations problem, at least with this shop.

Regards Mike

Mike:

I was interested to read your post, and I have much the same questions as Gary regarding the source of the information for the negative opinion. Has this person ever seen one of these units, has he worked on one, owned one?

I had a conversation on 11-1-00 with Mr. John Glazier with Arnav. I found out quite a bit about the ICDS2000. First, there are two new “product cycles” on this item. The first is due out this month, November, and the second is due out “June or July 2001”. I did not get the exact breakdown on the items that are due in November as distinguished from the ones for next year, as I don’t expect delivery until November 2001.

If you want further information from Arnav, call John Glazier at (253) 848-6060.

Hoewver, by the second “product cycle” Arnav expects to have the WxLink, Nexrad and engine monitor, Stormscope and Ryan TCAD interfaces in place. Mr. Glazier was not familiar with the Shadin air/fuel date computer, and promised to investigate an interface that would prermit display of winds aloft, endurance, fuel flow, etc. from the Shadin unit on the Arnav display.

He indicated that the reason that Arnav did not have much to show specifically was the timing of their “product cycle” relative to the date of the AOPA convention.

Arnav is in process of building the transmission network in the areas of the greatest weather events - the Northwest and the Southeast - first, and plans to have the entire country complete by the end of next year.

The display units that I saw of the receiver at AOPA for the WxLink and Nexrad had a dated converter plug that enables the receiver, and that is how they will manage the subscription service for the advanced weather graphic products.

The ICDS2000 is the replacement product for the #5200 display unit that Arnav has had on the market for some time. Aircraft Spruce & Speciality has a complete listing of the options for the 5200 including WxLink and engine instruments for the 5200. Take a look there for the detailed descriptions of these items.

On the point of displays, I am watching Sandel’s web site for information on the availability of TCAD display on the EHSI. I believe they will need to add a RS232 port for the TCAD data since all of their data ports are already occupied with GPS and Stormscope data. The addition of both Stormscope and TCAD data to the EHSI should add considerably to the weather and traffic safety since all of this data will be front and center on the Sandel.

If you can find out any specific information on the bad rep from the cigar chewing avionics shop proprietor, let us know!

7

General comment: The Arnav display loses a lot of it’s purpose when the database is incomplete or outright wrong (as it is for Europe). Airports missing, airspace indications incomplete or simply wrong (not all ATZ’s here are fixed radius…)

If map information could be tapped from the Garmins (it’s there and complete!! A piece of wire and some lines of S/W code get this underway) and engine parameters could be displayed I would change my rating from negative/neutral to positive.

Must admit, the stormscope display gives an excellent situational awareness vis a vis the bad stuff.

HK

Can you ask your guy why the ARNAV is such a piece of @#%? Has he ever seen one before? (I though the ICDS-2000 was unique to Cirrus so far.) Or does he consider all ARNAV products to be @#%? Is it the lack of function, or is it build quality? The more we know, the more informed we can be in our pleas to Cirrus. - Thanks, Gary

I had a colorfull conversation with my avionics shop today. I went there concerning a radio in my current airplane and was asking him about a stormscope for the SR20 and was showing him the avionics in it from the factory.

The conversation went something like this:

“Tell them you do not want the ICDS-2000, it is a piece of @#%." I said that it was necessary for the plane’s type certificate somehow or so I had heard. He said "that sounds like horse @#%. That is one pile of #%&* display”, an a few other discriptive comments about wasted money.

The rest of the avionics past his cigar chewing x-military muster but I think Arnav his a real public relations problem, at least with this shop.

Regards Mike

Mike, I hope you did not tell your out dated piece of @#$% a&p about the parachute. I’m sure that would be a neat conversation. As for the arnav now that I have it I would prefer never to fly with out it!..Ed

p.s. don’t tell him they used a computer to design the plane, it could be the last straw and we don’t want to see you get hurt!

8

Ed get off the web page and finish my foundation bid or their will be no lunch at the watsonvill airport tomorrow

9

General comment: The Arnav display loses a lot of it’s purpose when the database is incomplete or outright wrong

Same in Australia - the latest database is better, but still wrong, and the terrain information is wrong - climbing out of Cairns last weekend it showed a grid height of 4700 in an area where there are two mountains over 5200ft.

Lucky it’s for reference only!

10

General comment: The Arnav display loses a lot of it’s purpose when the database is incomplete or outright wrong

Same in Australia - the latest database is better, but still wrong, and the terrain information is wrong - climbing out of Cairns last weekend it showed a grid height of 4700 in an area where there are two mountains over 5200ft.

Lucky it’s for reference only!

WOW!!! Talk about stirring up controversy.

After dealing with this avionics shop for years I can safely say that they (the two of them) look at thing from a simplistic, functional view. Reliability is paramount. Parts availability and serviceability dito. What you say you will do is not nearly as important as what you have done.
He did comment that he felt that a Garmin 530 and a 430 would be better fit for this airplane and leave out the Arnav but he has never seen a picture of the inside of a SR 20-22.
Time will tell.

Oh by the way, we didn’t talk about the chute but my bets would be that he would look at it with a jaundiced eye. He carries his own his back in the plane he flies. Next time I am down there I will see if this causes a rise in his blood pressure too.
Regards, m myers

11

I had a conversation on 11-1-00 with Mr. John Glazier with Arnav. I found out quite a bit about the ICDS2000. First, there are two new “product cycles” on this item. The first is due out this month, November, and the second is due out “June or July 2001”.

I also spoke with Mr. Glaisyer today; very similar dialog. Had a follow-up conversation with Bruce, but Bruce wasn’t aware of any “product cycle” that was currently being tested with Arnav.

If you want further information from Arnav, call John Glazier at (253) 848-6060.

His email is jglaisyer@arnav.com

The ICDS2000 is the replacement product for the #5200 display unit that Arnav has had on the market for some time.

I was under the impression that the 5200 is a newer box, not the older one; but I must admit I don’t know where I got that impression. In any case, Mr. Glaisyer did say at one point that the two (5200 and ICDS 2000) have “completely different hardware and software”, so that things that work on one won’t necessarily work on the other.

I asked about whether a user might be able to modify the ICDS 2000 displays - for instance, adding items to the checklist, or adding whole checklists. He said that this is much more likely to be achievable with a 5200 than the ICDS 2000, because the 5200 is character based, while the ICDS 2000 is graphics oriented - in other words, even the words that are displayed (e.g. checklist items) are really regarded as pictures by the software - sort of like JPG images. He did, however, undertake to investigate what it would take to get this done, and to get back to me with likely timing and pricing.

Other tidbits: Apparently, the current implementation of the ICDS 2000 in the SR20 requires 2 datacards to update the database. The new (current “product cycle”) will reduce that to one card. This card is an 800 MB memory card, in a standard PCMCIA form factor. Since the Arnav is only ever used “for reference”, and not for primary nav, it’s never legally required to update its database; he recommends doing so about annually, or whenever there is a significant change to the airspace you typically fly in. Update is typical: Arnav first sends you new card/cards, then you send back the old stuff.

12

I had a conversation on 11-1-00 with Mr. John Glazier with Arnav. I found out quite a bit about the ICDS2000. First, there are two new “product cycles” on this item. The first is due out this month, November, and the second is due out “June or July 2001”.

I also spoke with Mr. Glaisyer today; very similar dialog. Had a follow-up conversation with Bruce, but Bruce wasn’t aware of any “product cycle” that was currently being tested with Arnav.

If you want further information from Arnav, call John Glazier at (253) 848-6060.

His email is jglaisyer@arnav.com

The ICDS2000 is the replacement product for the #5200 display unit that Arnav has had on the market for some time.

I was under the impression that the 5200 is a newer box, not the older one; but I must admit I don’t know where I got that impression. In any case, Mr. Glaisyer did say at one point that the two (5200 and ICDS 2000) have “completely different hardware and software”, so that things that work on one won’t necessarily work on the other.

I asked about whether a user might be able to modify the ICDS 2000 displays - for instance, adding items to the checklist, or adding whole checklists. He said that this is much more likely to be achievable with a 5200 than the ICDS 2000, because the 5200 is character based, while the ICDS 2000 is graphics oriented - in other words, even the words that are displayed (e.g. checklist items) are really regarded as pictures by the software - sort of like JPG images. He did, however, undertake to investigate what it would take to get this done, and to get back to me with likely timing and pricing.

Other tidbits: Apparently, the current implementation of the ICDS 2000 in the SR20 requires 2 datacards to update the database. The new (current “product cycle”) will reduce that to one card. This card is an 800 MB memory card, in a standard PCMCIA form factor. Since the Arnav is only ever used “for reference”, and not for primary nav, it’s never legally required to update its database; he recommends doing so about annually, or whenever there is a significant change to the airspace you typically fly in. Update is typical: Arnav first sends you new card/cards, then you send back the old stuff.

Mike:

Thanks for the information. I am still curious as to why Arnav has two very similar products on the market both using apparantly similiar if not identical display screens. It does not seem to be worth the development costs to have two such similar units.

The only visable differences between the ICDS 2000 and the MFD 5200 seems to be that the MFD 5200 has controls on both sides of the display and the ICDS 2000 has controls on only the right side.

One thing that is different is the amount of existing interface for the MFD 5200. Aircraft Spruce and Speciality shows all of the items that are still not yet in existence for the ICDS 2000: WxLink receiver; EGT, CHT, manifold pressure/vacuum, oil temp, oil pressurre, fuel pressure, and fuel flow; something called “Geo Net
Radio Modem” and video encoder.

Since the MFD 5200 has the other imput hardware available now and appears to be a character based display, can this unit be substituted for the ICDS 2000?

The Arnav web site still has no information on display options for the ICDS 2000.

13

If I’m not mistaken the 5200 unit has a much smaller screen. According to a conversation I had with someone at CD a smaller screen than 10 inch is not an option they are persuing. At least that was the case 3 to 4 months ago.

Placido

I had a conversation on 11-1-00 with Mr. John Glazier with Arnav. I found out quite a bit about the ICDS2000. First, there are two new “product cycles” on this item. The first is due out this month, November, and the second is due out “June or July 2001”.

I also spoke with Mr. Glaisyer today; very similar dialog. Had a follow-up conversation with Bruce, but Bruce wasn’t aware of any “product cycle” that was currently being tested with Arnav.

If you want further information from Arnav, call John Glazier at (253) 848-6060.

His email is jglaisyer@arnav.com

The ICDS2000 is the replacement product for the #5200 display unit that Arnav has had on the market for some time.

I was under the impression that the 5200 is a newer box, not the older one; but I must admit I don’t know where I got that impression. In any case, Mr. Glaisyer did say at one point that the two (5200 and ICDS 2000) have “completely different hardware and software”, so that things that work on one won’t necessarily work on the other.

I asked about whether a user might be able to modify the ICDS 2000 displays - for instance, adding items to the checklist, or adding whole checklists. He said that this is much more likely to be achievable with a 5200 than the ICDS 2000, because the 5200 is character based, while the ICDS 2000 is graphics oriented - in other words, even the words that are displayed (e.g. checklist items) are really regarded as pictures by the software - sort of like JPG images. He did, however, undertake to investigate what it would take to get this done, and to get back to me with likely timing and pricing.

Other tidbits: Apparently, the current implementation of the ICDS 2000 in the SR20 requires 2 datacards to update the database. The new (current “product cycle”) will reduce that to one card. This card is an 800 MB memory card, in a standard PCMCIA form factor. Since the Arnav is only ever used “for reference”, and not for primary nav, it’s never legally required to update its database; he recommends doing so about annually, or whenever there is a significant change to the airspace you typically fly in. Update is typical: Arnav first sends you new card/cards, then you send back the old stuff.

Mike:

Thanks for the information. I am still curious as to why Arnav has two very similar products on the market both using apparantly similiar if not identical display screens. It does not seem to be worth the development costs to have two such similar units.

The only visable differences between the ICDS 2000 and the MFD 5200 seems to be that the MFD 5200 has controls on both sides of the display and the ICDS 2000 has controls on only the right side.

One thing that is different is the amount of existing interface for the MFD 5200. Aircraft Spruce and Speciality shows all of the items that are still not yet in existence for the ICDS 2000: WxLink receiver; EGT, CHT, manifold pressure/vacuum, oil temp, oil pressurre, fuel pressure, and fuel flow; something called “Geo Net
Radio Modem” and video encoder.

Since the MFD 5200 has the other imput hardware available now and appears to be a character based display, can this unit be substituted for the ICDS 2000?

The Arnav web site still has no information on display options for the ICDS 2000.

14

Thanks for the information. I am still curious as to why Arnav has two very similar products on the market

As Placido pointed out, the 5200 is significantly smaller, but the other difference is that the 5200 has never been certified, and as such is not suitable for installation (at least as standard equipment) in a certified aircraft. From conversations with Arnav, it appears the certification challenges are one of the reasons for the delays in the ICDS2000 features appearing. It’s not that the certification requirements for the display are particularly difficult (since it’s for reference only) but there is still a lot of paperwork to be done.