Training on CAPS deployment

Jim,
As a long term user and believer in realistic simulator training I applaud your efforts. I really think that if (or when) realistic and reasonably priced simulation is widely available for GA we can make great strides in training. There are simply too many things that cannot safely be done in the aircraft itself.

In reply to:


Jim,
Are you involved in the design or sale of the new simulator? When can I expect to see the one Lift is supposed to get? I am eager to get quality simulator time.


Paul,

Not to answer for Jim… just some info that I know: Jim has started a company, Simtrain, to provide SR2X simulators. I believe that he’s specifiying the high-level design, but the actual implementation is being done by a third party. Those who were at M2 had the opportunity to get a fascinating preview of what’s to come - a tanatalizingly true-to-life computer based simulation of flying an SR22. From memory, our “out of the window” view was on three large flat panel displays, while other displays showed the PFD and an actual MFD which functioned normally. We had full control over flaps, brakes (L & R), mixture, rudder, throttle, etc. A separate “spectator” display showed a “chase plane” view of the Cirrus. To me, the achievement lies in the integrity of the simulator’s performance. It will be almost scarily like the “real thing” when it’s embodied in a real Cirrus cockpit, with motion - just like the “big boys”.

It will be interesting to see how Jim meets challenges like SR20 vs. SR22, and various configuration options (PFD, Sandel, Century); especially because it seems clear that these airplanes will continue to change and evolve into the future. Jim?

Here is an overview photo (literally):

I just found it exciting that it involves Jim. Jim flies through AirShares like I do. Sherri and I gave Jim a ride over to the CDM in Birmingham. He is a super nice guy. Having him involved in this is downright cool. Is this the full motion simulator reported by Aero News?

Mike,

Thanks for the very accurate post! Yes, we have some challenges replicating the panel for all 4 SR2X variants but the folks at Fidelity are fantastically innovative and I’m confident that we will produce a more than acceptable sim for all Cirri.

BTW, I just flew up to Pittsburgh today to have a progress meeting at Fidelity and I’m pleased to report that they are a little ahead of schedule. 2 of the motion bases and power cabinets are finished and the first panel assembly will arrive from Cirrus Design on Monday. S-TEC send in 3 autopilots and we worked part of the afternoon deciding how often we should have them blow through a selected altitude[;)].

More to come…

Jim

In reply to:


I just found it exciting that it involves Jim. Jim flies through AirShares like I do. Sherri and I gave Jim a ride over to the CDM in Birmingham. He is a super nice guy. Having him involved in this is downright cool. Is this the full motion simulator reported by Aero News?


Paul,

Indeed - if you’re talking about this report.

I got to meet Jim in person for the first time at M2 – and you’re right, he IS a super nice guy! I wish him spectacular success. I predict that simTrain (I think that’s how it’s written) will be compete strongly with BAAM and TurboWx for space on our Marketplace forum. [;)]

  • Mike.

This could help Cirrus stand out in GA as the premier single even more. The simulator would be a unique advantage over a lot of the competition. I, for one, would love to spend time in a simulator where death and destruction are only virtual.

Have you watched the videos of the chute deployment testing? In one the plane goes into a spin. What makes you nervous? The rocket takes the chute away from the plane where it can open in a controlled fashion.

I saw the videos posted on the Cirrus website years ago…neither appeared to be a deployment to recover from a spin. However, it did appear that the camera plane was circling the Cirrus during deployment…perhaps that made it appear like a spin.

But either way, I’m fairly certain Cirrus did not demonstrate the chute deployment in all types of spins, in a manner that is as thorough as conventional spin recovery certification. That would have required literally hundreds of chute deployments. What makes me nervous about using the chute as the first response to any type of spin, is that the chute could malfunction or become tangled. Eg, as parachutists know, it is also possible to get a line tangled in one’s arms or legs and cause a partial malfunction of the canopy (in fact, this happened to me the first time I ever parachuted…I managed to untangle it with a few yanks and the canopy opened). In the case of a spinning aircraft, I could imagine a vertical accelerated spin causing the lines below the slider to twist before the canopy opened and possibly block the slider, or in a flat inverted spin, lines could become tangled in some part of the plane…such as the empennage or prop, since the chute would be deployed in a downward fashion in this case. One can imagine other scenarios with a tumbling airplane.

With most planes, conventional spin recovery inputs provide almost 100% certainty that the spin will stop, the plane will recover and you can fly on to your destination, plane intact, and without a hiccup. I heard years ago, that Cirrus pilots in fact explored spin recovery in the Cirrus (though not per FAA requirements) and found it to be conventional.

So, if it is true that the chute has not been demonstrated to work for all types of spins, I found it surprising that the POH nevertheless directs using the chute first in a spin, without even attempting conventional recovery. My guess: It’s the lawyers made them write this!

Form the POH:

  1. Power Lever …IDLE
  2. Control Yoke … Neutral
  3. Rudder … Briskly Apply Opposite Yaw/Spin Direction
    Note
    If disorientation precludes visual determination of the
    direction of rotation, refer to the symbolic airplane in the turn
    coordinator. If the spiral/spin was entered while applying
    rudder, then the opposite rudder should be applied for
    recovery.
  4. Just after the rudder reaches the stop, move the yoke briskly
    forward far enough to break the stall. Full down elevator may be
    required. Hold these control inputs until rotation stops. Premature
    relaxation of control inputs may prolong the recovery.
  5. After rotation stops, neutralize rudder, and make a smooth
    recovery from the resulting dive. Add power as required. Be
    prepared for possible engine power loss if rotation causes fuel
    starvation.
    If the above steps do not recover the aircraft and/or it has been
    determined that the aircraft has departed controlled flight:
  6. CAPS …Activate

So, I think they want you to try conventional spin recovery if there is adequate altitude.

In one video, the plane appears to me to be in a spin albeit not an inverted spin.

In reply to:


I saw the videos posted on the Cirrus website years ago…neither appeared to be a deployment to recover from a spin. However, it did appear that the camera plane was circling the Cirrus during deployment…perhaps that made it appear like a spin.


I looked at those videos carefully and interviewed the test team when I was writing about this. I am virtually certain that the video included a spin, with recovery via parachute deployment.

The cirrus that went down in Canada deployed its chute, when according to the pilot, the plane went into a spin. Proof enough that it works.

Dave,

There’s no need to rely on memory, for the videos of SR20 parachute deployment are available at the BRS web site:

http://brsparachutes.com/PI_videos.mgihttp://brsparachutes.com/PI_videos.mgi

The video entitled “Cirrus SR20 Spin-Test Development” clearly shows the airplane gyrating to a near-inverted attitude in which the upper wing surfaces are in shadow (see attached image). It’s hard to reconcile those shadows with your hypothesis that the apparent motion of the SR20 in the video was caused by the motion of the camera plane.

Cheers,
Roger
1-97335-spin_excerpt.jpg

In reply to:


Form the POH:

  1. Power Lever …IDLE
  2. Control Yoke … Neutral
  3. Rudder … Briskly Apply Opposite Yaw/Spin Direction

Paul:

The POH (and this procedure) was revised some time back - this is the original procedure, not the current one. The revised POH applies to all SR22 aircraft - if you don’t have it you should check with Cirrus.

Regards,

Tim

In reply to:


The cirrus that went down in Canada deployed its chute, when according to the pilot, the plane went into a spin. Proof enough that it works.


That was the pilot’s description. The radar track showed a spiral dive.

That’s what I get for grabbing it from the pdf file on my laptop at work. :wink:

Thanks for the link…those were interesting vids, and clearly show recovery in a normal spin.

I just returned from a trip to the Bahamas…Cat Island…in my Piper Warrior. I must say, I thought a couple of times while heading out over the open water, that a chute for a gentle touchdown would be nice if we had lost the engine.