Stupidity - Just a Rant and Rave

[:(]OK, the FAA has ordered 3 mile TFRs around major U.S. monuments such as the Statue of Liberty, Gateway Arch, and Mt. Rushmore for the July 4 weekend. What is the point? Unless they are guarded by Stinger SA missiles or F-15’s and F-16s flying armed CAPs, what are they going to do?
Gee, let’s see. If I was someone bent on flying a GA aircraft laden with explosives into one of these ‘targets,’ committing suicide in the process, would the fact that I would break an FAR even enter into my thought process? So, what is the point, I ask, if it can’t stop a terrorist, except one with a conscious?
For the record, I am not, nor have I ever considered such a ridiculous stunt.
This is another example of another ‘do nothing, feel good,’ colossal waste of time.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled broadcast. Sorry.

Hey buddy, watch what you say about the Gateway Arch!!

Seriously, I think you have a good point. However, how is this different from the flight restrictions around stadiums on game day? (Big crowds at Fair St. Louis, which is by the arch) Maybe they think that if there’s a credible threat, they can be poised to look for the three-mile incursion and immediately respond.

Andy

The only plausible explanation I can think of (and it’s pretty weak - I’m stretching here) is that they expect large #s of people in the crowd, and if there was a plane circling overhead, or even flying low overhead, some people might panic, or needlessly call 911, etc.

Well, that’s the best I could do – and it’s not even very good.

As last week’s incident shows, even the 15 nm TFR around DC wasn’t enough to prevent some guy from flying near the white house, followed some 10 minutes later by F-16s in hot pursuit (by which time the guy in the cessna was already well clear of the TFR!)

Steve

Gee, let’s see. If I was someone bent on flying a GA aircraft laden with explosives into one of these ‘targets,’ committing suicide in the process, would the fact that I would break an FAR even enter into my thought process?

Marty, excellent point. The problem is not the FARs. The problem is that they are not being enforced. What about those guys that hijacked those airliners and flew them into buildings? Their student pilot certificats should have been revoked, or at least suspended. I can think of four or five FARs they violated, besides the “careless or reckless” one.

If they would just enforce the regulations, it would act as a deterrent – just as capital punishment does.

Perhaps a placard on airliner cockpit doors: Hijackers that violate 14 CFR will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law!

Tongue firmly in cheek,

-Mike

Steve,

It is not a very weak explanation. Most of these TFRs are to keep the crowd safe. If 30 planes decide to invade this airspace all at once, well, you get the picture. Also, after Sept 11th there’s a greater awareness from the public and that will always generate some attention. There’s no reason for aircraft to be in this area anyway during these events.

The TFR won’t stop a terrorist anymore than an aircraft lock will stop a thief. But it does give the DoD a legal reason to shoot you down!

In reply to:


It is not a very weak explanation. Most of these TFRs are to keep the crowd safe. If 30 planes decide to invade this airspace all at once, well, you get the picture. Also, after Sept 11th there’s a greater awareness from the public and that will always generate some attention. There’s no reason for aircraft to be in this area anyway during these events.

The TFR won’t stop a terrorist anymore than an aircraft lock will stop a thief. But it does give the DoD a legal reason to shoot you down!


Come on Scott!. I can agree that the appearance of planes may spook some people and that keeping them away is indeed a feelgood exercise.

BUT, I can’t buy that numerous aircraft over a public gathering pose any more of a threat now than they did before 9/11. Furthermore, most major events and gatherings tend to have numerous aircraft already there and have for many years. I am speaking of the news copters and planes, the banner towers, police aircraft and, of course, folks like you and me who are just sightseeing. (I remember at the KY Derby 2 years ago, the Hilfigger and Bud blimps gently collided right over the track. Nothing happened,. As far as I know, it wasn’t even reported.) Even the gov’t. uses private planes. The National Park Service uses aerial photos taken under contract to judge crowd sizes. How do you think they can count the people on the National Mall in DC?

Does anyone here really believe that a GA aircraft, even one loaded to the gills (remember that other photo?) with explosives will do any more damage than a van or rental truck similarly loaded? Which do you think would be easier to obtain and load? Why go to years of school to fly a Cessna when you can rent a Ryder truck with a license and credit card. Heck, you have to laoad that truck or van anyway to ge tthe explosives to the airport in the first place.

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t mind increased security, if fact, I appreciate it - they are trying to protect me and my family. I just think that we should stop fooling ourselves with worthless, highly publicized steps and do something that does make a difference. Eventually some poor slob of a pilot will accidentally intrude on one of these events and the crowd will panic. Not because they’re scared of the plane, but because they know it should not be there so it must be up to some nefarious task. Then everyone ends up hating GA aircraft for all of these panics, and our rights will be curtailed. If I was a conspiracy type, I would say that the restrictions are being implemented for that very reason!

Marty

Marty, it’s the usual story with government - rather than solving the problems that really need solving, they solve the ones that are easy. It’s hard to keep the bad guys out, but easy to keep the good guys out, all you have to do is pass a law or make a regulation, and the good guys just do it! It creates the illusion of security. And then if something bad happens, the government can say “not our fault, we did our best, we put a TFR in place”.

Marty, you are preaching to the choir. I don’t get as uptight about these things simply because they are usually small areas and they come and go quickly. Even before 9/11, airshows all over the country usually demand some kind of flight restricted airspace.

If anything, they make us strive a little harder as pilots to be sure we’re following the rules and checking NOTAMs before each flight. It is a small, small price to pay whether or not we agree with the way the gov’t utilizes the system. I normally make two phone calls to flight service before each flight. The second call is to check to see that I got the same answer. About 10% of the time I get two different answers. Does that make you feel good?