I’ll stick up for Steve here. I have flown planes with and without speed brakes. Speed brakes add a very nice to have additional capability which I found useful and enjoyable. Then again I am a junkie for this type of stuff in that I think GPS, CAPS, etc. are all nice additions. I even like having radios. One can certainly fly without these but each adds something I like. I agree with Robert that Steve is a little inconsistent in liking speed brakes but thinking CAPS is a worthless crutch. However, the topic was speed brakes and on that one I agree with Steve that they are a real plus. I would be careful in deploying them when low since there have been cases where one has stuck and the other opened. At altitude this can be compensated for and the flight continued; usually by retracting the extended speed brake.
I also agree with Steve! I have flown 2 A/C with brakes and love it! Precise Flight in Bend, OR. looked at my 02 SR22 a couple of years ago for the possibility of retrofitting. I wa picking up an Oxygen tank, etc. Room or place for an install wa the concern. I never heard teh verdict.
Hi Rob, I wonder if you remember me? We met on the patio at Buttonville a 2 (or 3?) years ago after both of us had taken delivery of our new planes.
Good to hear from you again.
I’m having trouble hearing your aruments about the brakes. I’ve had a lot of fun helping my fellow aviators and ATC, making the system more pleasant and efficient without any compromise to anybody’s safety. That “thanks for the help” comment from ATC comes with an extra tone of sincerity when they get a real effort on our part. Or at least it looks like an effort to them when in fact it’s as easy as keying the mic button for us. And I agree, there is nothing wrong with saying “unable” when you are. It’s just nicer to be “able”!
There are a few Cirrus pilots with banged up planes that could have been spared by a speed brake option when their moment of truth arrived. Having the option is a good thing.
Did I leave out the part about being able to zip into formation with other planes then match speeds almost instantly? <-- just kidding in case anyone misunderstands …
Pretty hard not to bring up the chute isn’t it, even in a discussion about brakes?
For the record, I’ll reaffirm that I’m a supporter of the chute - I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again here. But unlike many, I’m not a blind supporter and can see the positives and negatives with equal clarity. I’ve come to realize that very few can do that.
How’s BC? In a word it’s paradise out here. From an aviation point of view the summers are just about perfect - severe clear , moderate temperatures and light winds for months. The winters are nice to live in, but not so nice to fly in. The freezing level is usually 2-3K’, IFR MEAs are way up there and there’s lots of moisture around. So terrain, water crossings and ice are more factors than they are in Ontario. Still there are nice days to fly in the winter, but lots of down days too.
Hmmmm. Well it’s nice that you feel the same way I do about the brakes.
I am misunderstood when it comes to the chute though. Despite liking and supporting the chute, some can’t shake the idea that I’m a detractor.
The best I can tell, there are 2 reasons: 1) When I talk about both positive and negative aspects of the chute to people who only see the positives, they only hear the negatives. That’s human nature. 2) I own a Columbia and people (wrongly) assume that makes me anti-Cirrus. That’s too bad, but it’s still worth putting out a balanced view in my opinion, even if it risks being unpopular.
Hmmmm. Well it’s nice that you feel the same way I do about the brakes.
I am misunderstood when it comes to the chute though. Despite liking and supporting the chute, some can’t shake the idea that I’m a detractor.
The best I can tell, there are 2 reasons: 1) When I talk about both positive and negative aspects of the chute to people who only see the positives, they only hear the negatives. That’s human nature. 2) I own a Columbia and people (wrongly) assume that makes me anti-Cirrus. That’s too bad, but it’s still worth putting out a balanced view in my opinion, even if it risks being unpopular.
Hello Steve -
I had a 2003 PFD Columbia 350 with Speed brakes and my choice/impression/preference is SPEED BRAKES are another tool in the box. If speed brakes were offered by Cirrus as an option - I’d order them.
Sometimes I’d have to “find reasons” to use the brakes…but always found myself impressed by the instant and effective
drag created - without a pitch up / down in attitude. Very close to the feeling of dropping the gear on my Bonanza.
I noticed nothing but goodness in your comments on speed brakes. They add cost and weight which are two arguments you make against the chute. Personally I think that, despite negative comments from Cirrus owners, if speed bakes were an option most CIrrus aircraft would have them and Cirrus owners would rave about them.
Similarly, if Columbia offered a BRS system I suspect most Columbia aircraft would have a chute in their plane. You have, indeed, mentioned you would get one. I also think the acerbic tone of chute conversations on the LOPA site would turn sweeter.
However, comments like;
“I submit that a fleet of 1000 planes equipped with a parachute (let’s call them fleet P) will have a higher accident rate, more damage and a higher fatality rate than a fleet of similar planes not equipped with the chute (fleet N).”
when there are no similar disclaimers to speed bakes indicate a bias to me. Why, if the chute has such a bad effect on decision making do you feel speed brakes don’t have a similar effect? For reference, the post is [ulr=http://www.lancairpilots.org/showthread.php?t=1250] here.
Just so I don’t get misunderstood, I don’t think the chute or speed brakes have a measurable effect on accident rates. I do suspect that other factors may but some good arguments have been raised against my concerns. Making planes more capable may lead people to poor decision making but that argument would work against GPS, BRS systems, speed brakes, high power engines, long cruising range, pressurization, retractable gear, twin engines, and many more items.
[quote]
I passed a SW B737 on final (well inside the outer marker) and landed on a 4,000’ runway with only delayed, light to moderate braking. I don’t now a 737’s approach speed, but I was probably at 180 KIAS.
[quote]
A B737 will have a Vref in the 130-140 KIAS range.
<-- just kidding in case anyone misunderstands …