Pirep

For reasons I’ll explain later on, I recently had the chance to spend A LOT of hours in a demo SR20 on a coast-to-coast-to-coast flight, Duluth to San Francisco to Boston. My general admiration for the plane is reinforced, but relative to recent discussions here I offer these reports:

* no engine problems

* no transponder problems

* no Garmin problems

* no vacuum system problems

* no electrical system problems

* no problems starting the engine

* no door problems

* no problem climbing at a brisk rate

* basically, no problems. Except the mantra-like need to explain to each controller, after "Say again type of aircraft??": "The make is Cirrus, as in cirrus clouds, model Sierra Romeo Two-Zero, recently-certified single-engine propeller plane, 150 knots." Along the way was called "Sikorsky," "Saberliner," "Sierra," "Centurion," and the ever-popular "experimental."

Only troublesome period of the flight came leaving Salt Lake City, where the airport elevation is 4200, the surface temperature was 95F, the plane was very heavily loaded and fully gassed, and a range of mountains at about 10,000' is immediately to the airport's east. I had to circle when leaving the airport to gain enough altitude to get over them, and i kept an eye on oil temp through that whole climb. Otherwise, climbed just fine.

Only area of the plane that clearly needs improvement: the ARNAV screen. It does not provide enough extra useful info to be worth the space in the panel. Fortunately there are a lot of competitive technologies, which will either force ARNAV to improve or will give Cirrus other options.

I'm not suggesting that the SR20 is the ideal transcontinental vehicle. If I were planning on doing a lot of very long hauls, 1000+ miles in a day, or a lot of flying in the mountain west, I'd look at the SR22. But FWIW on these long hauls had none of the usual woes to report. The plane ran perfectly and was very comfortable and pleasant to be in. JIm Fallows

Only area of the plane that clearly needs improvement: the ARNAV screen. It does not provide enough extra useful info to be worth the space in the panel. Fortunately there are a lot of competitive technologies, which will either force ARNAV to improve or will give Cirrus other options.

Nice post, Jim. I’m interested in your rate of climb as you passed through 5 and 10,000 feet. Did you have to back off of Vy, and did the temp rise above or get near redline (whatever that is)?

Regarding the ARNAV. It’s taken alot of direct hits on this forum, yet it is absolutely part of the certification package which can’t be changed without further delaying the delivery of our birds and the financial break even day of our favorite fledgling aircraft company, so… Could it’s best use actually be related to utilizing those inputs which I have been told exist on the ARNAV so my 12 year old daughter can watch DVDs or check out her digital photos while we fly? How “first class” would that be with inflight movies? Are the inputs really there? aa (N204AK sometime in March 2001)

First off i love flying this plane but living here in So. Cal. i have had heating problems. Yesterday climbing out of Santa MOnica in 95 degree weather it was necessary to reduce angle of attack which was only about 700fpm to about 400fpm and reduce rpm to about 2300 to keep cht and oil temp in green and due to heating of oil the oil pressure did drop a little although still solidly in the green. It is rather frustrating because in a high traffic are like i am in i like o get up to cruising altitude quickly so i do not spend much time flying ino traffic on the way up. I keep looking at the location of the landing light and cant help but wonder if there is not a better placce for it. Sitting where it is it must hinder the cooling. Anybody talked to the factory about this? Meanwhile cant wait for cooler days where these problems go away.>For reasons I’ll explain later on, I recently had the chance to spend A LOT of hours in a demo SR20 on a coast-to-coast-to-coast flight, Duluth to San Francisco to Boston. My general admiration for the plane is reinforced, but relative to recent discussions here I offer these reports:

  • no engine problems
  • no transponder problems
  • no Garmin problems
  • no vacuum system problems
  • no electrical system problems
  • no problems starting the engine
  • no door problems
  • no problem climbing at a brisk rate
  • basically, no problems. Except the mantra-like need to explain to each controller, after “Say again type of aircraft??”: “The make is Cirrus, as in cirrus clouds, model Sierra Romeo Two-Zero, recently-certified single-engine propeller plane, 150 knots.” Along the way was called “Sikorsky,” “Saberliner,” “Sierra,” “Centurion,” and the ever-popular “experimental.”

Only troublesome period of the flight came leaving Salt Lake City, where the airport elevation is 4200, the surface temperature was 95F, the plane was very heavily loaded and fully gassed, and a range of mountains at about 10,000’ is immediately to the airport’s east. I had to circle when leaving the airport to gain enough altitude to get over them, and i kept an eye on oil temp through that whole climb. Otherwise, climbed just fine.

Only area of the plane that clearly needs improvement: the ARNAV screen. It does not provide enough extra useful info to be worth the space in the panel. Fortunately there are a lot of competitive technologies, which will either force ARNAV to improve or will give Cirrus other options.

I’m not suggesting that the SR20 is the ideal transcontinental vehicle. If I were planning on doing a lot of very long hauls, 1000+ miles in a day, or a lot of flying in the mountain west, I’d look at the SR22. But FWIW on these long hauls had none of the usual woes to report. The plane ran perfectly and was very comfortable and pleasant to be in. JIm Fallows

For reasons I’ll explain later on, I recently had the chance to spend A LOT of hours in a demo SR20 on a coast-to-coast-to-coast flight, Duluth to San Francisco to Boston.

Dang, you bloody journalists have all the luck! Taking my cue from you I have tried with no hint of success to interest Annual Review of Immunology and Journal of Experimental Medicine in an article about the SR20. Can’t fathom why they’re so unenlightened and out of touch…:slight_smile:

Jim!

Great story, carbon copy of my experience cross continent in N144CD after we last met on the WA apron at BFI. Watch this space for the full story (yes, it’s overdue, but the view at the ARNAV screen -subcribe to your comments- is better than a PC screen, so I opted to go out and play).

See ya

Han K

For reasons I’ll explain later on, I recently had the chance to spend A LOT of hours in a demo SR20 on a coast-to-coast-to-coast flight, Duluth to San Francisco to Boston. My general admiration for the plane is reinforced, but relative to recent discussions here I offer these reports:

  • no engine problems
  • no transponder problems
  • no Garmin problems
  • no vacuum system problems
  • no electrical system problems
  • no problems starting the engine
  • no door problems
  • no problem climbing at a brisk rate
  • basically, no problems. Except the mantra-like need to explain to each controller, after “Say again type of aircraft??”: “The make is Cirrus, as in cirrus clouds, model Sierra Romeo Two-Zero, recently-certified single-engine propeller plane, 150 knots.” Along the way was called “Sikorsky,” “Saberliner,” “Sierra,” “Centurion,” and the ever-popular “experimental.”

Only troublesome period of the flight came leaving Salt Lake City, where the airport elevation is 4200, the surface temperature was 95F, the plane was very heavily loaded and fully gassed, and a range of mountains at about 10,000’ is immediately to the airport’s east. I had to circle when leaving the airport to gain enough altitude to get over them, and i kept an eye on oil temp through that whole climb. Otherwise, climbed just fine.

Only area of the plane that clearly needs improvement: the ARNAV screen. It does not provide enough extra useful info to be worth the space in the panel. Fortunately there are a lot of competitive technologies, which will either force ARNAV to improve or will give Cirrus other options.

I’m not suggesting that the SR20 is the ideal transcontinental vehicle. If I were planning on doing a lot of very long hauls, 1000+ miles in a day, or a lot of flying in the mountain west, I’d look at the SR22. But FWIW on these long hauls had none of the usual woes to report. The plane ran perfectly and was very comfortable and pleasant to be in. JIm Fallows

Could it’s best use actually be related to utilizing those inputs which I have been told exist on the ARNAV so my 12 year old daughter can watch DVDs or check out her digital photos while we fly?

Well, the Arnav specs for the ICDS2000 list an “NTSC Video input (optional)” so I guess it’s probably not fitted, and in any case, the software has no way of selecting it. But I guess you could ask for it as an upgrade :slight_smile:

I’m interested in your rate of climb as you passed through 5 and 10,000 feet. Did you have to back off of Vy, and did the temp rise above or get near redline (whatever that is)?<

Climbing was fine above 5000 feet – had to go briefly to 12,500 over the mountains, and was at 11,000 for quite a while. The only problem was that one Salt Lake City episode, where it was extremely hot, the plane was at its heaviest, and the pressure to climb fast was at its max because the mountains were RIGHT THERE. The oil temp went to redline as I got to about 8000 feet, and then I slowed the climb and circled until I got to 11,000. Otherwise no climb complaints

Regarding the ARNAV.<

To be slightly more judicious about its pros and cons, it has some attractions:

  • unlike the Garmins, its depictions of Class B airpace include the relevant altitudes. This means you can see at a glance when you’re in Class B that starts at 3000 feet, and when you’re in the 5000 feet zone, etc. This is very handy.

  • because its moving map is approx ten times as large as those on the Garmins, it does give you a big-panorama picture of where you’re going, especially when the zoom is set to show you several states at a time.

  • for ILS approaches, it does a very nice job of depicting where the localizer is, so you can easily envision your route to intercept the localizer.

  • when it’s at 50NM resolution (I think), it shows you the maximum elevation in each sector, just as a sectional map does;

* when it's at 25NM resolution, it shows you isolated peaks and obstacles on your flight path -- this tower to your left is at 3825 feet, that summit to your right is at 7268.
* the stormscope/strikefinder display is VERY useful, as I had occasion find out when penetrating an unexpected (to me, the Weather Briefer, and the controllers) line of bad thunderstorms in upstate New York. I now know all about slowing the plane to maneuvering speed and holding a constant attitude when going through moderate-to-severe turbulence.

So the problems are mainly those of missed opportunity. To be more specific:

  • apart from depicting airports and point elevations, there’s no detail on the display. What would be great is what some competitors actually offer: moving maps that LOOK JUST LIKE sectional maps (when you’re flying VFR) or IFR en route maps. I know that these products exist, because I’ve been in airplanes that have them, and they are MUCH more informative about what you’re passing over and your general flight situation.

  • I don’t really trust the point-elevation information shown on the ARNAV, which became a major point of interest/concern when going over the big mountains. There did not seem to be a faithful correlation between the peaks I could see right before me in Utah and Wyoming and what the Arnav was warning me about. I relied instead on the sectional on my lap for obstacle info.

  • Of course there’s all the engine monitoring stuff etc.

  • And of course real-time weather info, especially weather radar info, would be a godsend.

Essentially: if you’ve seen moving-maps that represent either sectional charts or en-route IFR charts, it becomes clear that that is the way to go. So I hope Arnav is inspired or forced to go in that direction.

  • when it’s at 25NM resolution, it shows you isolated peaks and obstacles on your flight path – this tower to your left is at 3825 feet, that summit to your right is at 7268.

That feature was a big help for me one day during my training. Nashville Approach was sending us everywhere but the Nashville (BNA) airport for a while. Approach sent us low right near a busy little airport (John Tune - JWN) that is frequented by some fast jets that at times adhere to their on rules. While I was looking for traffic, I lost sight of a large tower (1,100 AGL) until I glanced at the ARNAV. I was on a near direct path for it - seeing such a tower in heavy haze is not easy. Granted, I was a good 300-400 feet above it, but it was still nice to know exactly where it was so I could give myself a little more room.

As a sidebar, Approach did notify me of an unidentified aircraft at 12 o’clock going the same direction. I believe that it was 800 feet below us. It was a Cessna that I presumed was a 172. At 150 knots, we smoked past it.

First off i love flying this plane but living here in So. Cal. i have had heating problems. Yesterday climbing out of Santa MOnica in 95 degree weather it was necessary to reduce angle of attack which was only about 700fpm to about 400fpm and reduce rpm to about 2300 to keep cht and oil temp in green and due to heating of oil the oil pressure did drop a little although still solidly in the green. It is rather frustrating because in a high traffic are like i am in i like o get up to cruising altitude quickly so i do not spend much time flying ino traffic on the way up. I keep looking at the location of the landing light and cant help but wonder if there is not a better placce for it. Sitting where it is it must hinder the cooling. Anybody talked to the factory about this?

They are supposed to move it to the lower cowling and double it. Less vibration and no reflection off the prop back into the pilot’s eyes.

Not sure when this is supposed to happen.

Hello Hblitz,

If I may suggest: Minimize your ground time. I used to fly Lancairs, as you know there is no room for cooling of the engine. We are used to flying airplanes that had huge openings for cooling (older Mooneys, Cessnas, Pipers), you could sit all day on the ground with the engine running and you did not have a problem. With modern airplanes we must adjust our check list and our minds to the speed of the airplane we are flying. Example: 1. Give me a good reason why in an uncontrolled field after you(most of the people) start the engine and just sit there after they check the oil pressure? 2. Why do most people wait to do everything in the run up area. Tell me 3 things that must be done in the run up area. Now tell me why they can not be performed on the way there. I have changed the way I operate, I don’t miss any items and I don’t waist any time, I like to think of multi-task. The reason I have a fast airplane is to get places fast. I must be able to think and perform in a multi task way. Have you ever seen the guy or girl in front of you on a road, you know he want to be in your lane, but he wont put his or hers turn signal until he or her has a clear shot. Sorry for being so long winded but I am sure you can minimize your ground time by 80% Try that and let me know. Have a great Cirrus day.

First off i love flying this plane but living here in So. Cal. i have had heating problems. Yesterday climbing out of Santa MOnica in 95 degree weather it was necessary to reduce angle of attack which was only about 700fpm to about 400fpm and reduce rpm to about 2300 to keep cht and oil temp in green and due to heating of oil the oil pressure did drop a little although still solidly in the green. It is rather frustrating because in a high traffic are like i am in i like o get up to cruising altitude quickly so i do not spend much time flying ino traffic on the way up. I keep looking at the location of the landing light and cant help but wonder if there is not a better placce for it. Sitting where it is it must hinder the cooling. Anybody talked to the factory about this? Meanwhile cant wait for cooler days where these problems go away.>

Tell me 3 things that must be done in the run up area. Now tell me why they can not be performed on the way there.<

Interesting point! I think many of the lower-time folk, like me (350hrs), don’t do the checkout while taxiing because we were so recently trained to do it in the formal runup zone.

At my current experience level, here are two things I’d be apprehensive about doing on taxi:

* the engine runup, to 2000+ RPMs in the case of the SR20. That would mean either taxiing pretty damned fast (usually downwind) or riding the brakes. Do you do this on the run?
  • the “flight controls free and correct.” This would seem to imply more bobbing and weaving around the runway than might be great. Granted, this is a 15-second item so wouldn’t make a huge difference either way.

So I’m curious: do you save anything for run-up? Or do it all on the taxiway? What can you tell the new guys? JF

Tell me 3 things that must be done in the run up area. Now tell me why they can not be performed on the way there.<

Interesting point! I think many of the lower-time folk, like me (350hrs), don’t do the checkout while taxiing because we were so recently trained to do it in the formal runup zone.

At my current experience level, here are two things I’d be apprehensive about doing on taxi:

  • the engine runup, to 2000+ RPMs in the case of the SR20. That would mean either taxiing pretty damned fast (usually downwind) or riding the brakes. Do you do this on the run?
  • the “flight controls free and correct.” This would seem to imply more bobbing and weaving around the runway than might be great. Granted, this is a 15-second item so wouldn’t make a huge difference either way.

So I’m curious: do you save anything for run-up? Or do it all on the taxiway? What can you tell the new guys? JF

I was doing the pre-takeoff checks in a Baron at Albuquerque while on the roll (at the suggestion of my instructor, as a summer storm was about to hit the field and we wanted to get out of there). We did the whole thing on the roll (which did require riding the brakes for the prop exercise, mag check, and feather check) and it wasn’t too bad with two people. The funniest part was when I got to “flight controls free and correct” and started yanking the yoke around. She was in the middle of trying to talk to the tower when the PTT button started moving around the cockpit!

I suspect that, once you become comfortable with the airplane, the checks can be done on the roll, though it does require extra vigilance to make sure that you don’t miss anything. Memorizing the flow is critical.

So I’m curious: do you save anything for run-up? Or do it all on the taxiway? What can you tell the new guys? JF

Now that I’m flying one particular airplane all the time, as opposed to flying club tin which would be different on each flight, I do a lot of stuff while warming up at tiedown and while taxiing. At the runup area I just do the runup: prop, mags, suction, electrical, transponder, set flaps. In 20 seconds I’m contacting tower and wanting out!

As the hobbs is ticking away…

Not all the run ups are done on the run. If I start up close to the departure end, I will do a regular run up, only when the temps are in the green or have started moving close to the green. You will be surprised on how fast you can do it. Do you look at the iginition key when you go from Lt. to Rt. or both? I don’t, it is two clicks to the left, while looking at the tach, wait till it stabilizes (record the drop in your mind) then two to the right (back to both to make sure my RPM is back to where it started) then one left (same as before) back to both and so on.

The trick here is to get it to the desired RPM fast, this will allow you to still be very slow in your taxi. If you drag your feet you will start moving then you may have to drag some brakes. If you don’t feel comfortable get on the brakes first so you don’t gain speed. This may sound not to safe, but you can do all in one smooth flow and be very safe. If you are at the run up pad as you are finishing why not release the brakes just when you are bringing the power back so you can get it closer to the hold line. You should have been on the tower freg so you can be monitoring the tower to be aware of what is going on, this may also save some time, if you hear of a flock of birds (airplanes) entering the pattern you may want to tell the tower that you are ready for an immediate or be prepared to spend the next 20 minutes waiting for the birds to land. What is that going to do to your oil temp? Yes, it is going to get hot, and you are going to blame the aircraft manufacture for designing a poor system. No one will take in concideration that it was 10 minutes after the engine started before the tire rolled, and may be another 15 running up, then oh,m yes what frequency was the tower again?!?@?# Let me know what you think?

Have a great Cirrus day.

:slight_smile:

Woor #324

Tell me 3 things that must be done in the run up area. Now tell me why they can not be performed on the way there.<

Interesting point! I think many of the lower-time folk, like me (350hrs), don’t do the checkout while taxiing because we were so recently trained to do it in the formal runup zone.

At my current experience level, here are two things I’d be apprehensive about doing on taxi:

  • the engine runup, to 2000+ RPMs in the case of the SR20. That would mean either taxiing pretty damned fast (usually downwind) or riding the brakes. Do you do this on the run?
  • the “flight controls free and correct.” This would seem to imply more bobbing and weaving around the runway than might be great. Granted, this is a 15-second item so wouldn’t make a huge difference either way.

So I’m curious: do you save anything for run-up? Or do it all on the taxiway? What can you tell the new guys? JF