Just got my Tablet PC & Jepp Charts

Guest Discussion
21

Scott,

I think I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from, but I do have some comments and questions. However, I must say that I looked up your profile before I replied and I respect your experience and ratings. Also, I am a low time single engine land instrument pilot and am wanting to learn more about my passion, aviation. So, please don’t take my reply as argumentative, but education seeking.

My guess is that many pilots today are learning situational awareness from an electronic map instead of traditional VOR and other older forms of navigation. For instance, a good pilot will listen to a VOR’s morris code when they tune in to it and confirm that it is the right one, or it is active. I bet pilots who learn with moving maps will not see the need to verify a VOR signal, because when you say “direct to” a city and hit activate on a GPS, you’ll instantly know if you chose a city in Mexico, when you wanted a city in Minnesota.

Therefore, are you saying that pilots who have their current GPS card, may think they have everything there is to know about their destination at their fingertips and don’t need to check NOTAMs? I could see where this habbit may settle in, but we should always check for NOTAMs and AIRMETs before every flight. I admit that I don’t file a flight plan and check for airmets on a good VFR day for a flight of less than 45 minutes or so. But I should. I’m not sure that is because I have a moving map or because I am lazy. Maybe both. But on cross country flights, I do it all.

When you say “electronic” versions of the charts, are you saying jepp charts on a laptop or tablet, or are you also including GPS receivers and moving maps?

I think it’s a very powerful tool to be able to go on-line, file a flight plan electronically, and print out all NOTAMs from there. (instead of using a slow pencil) Even more so, have the computer translate the code into english. Is this available anywhere? I know that Avidyne is promoting this feature for their weather uplink, but can I get it on-line at DUATs or somewhere? Commercial pilots who look at them every day are used to the codes, but if it were in english instead of codes, I would be likely to take the time to review the NOTAMs. (I am also intimidated and embarrassed because I should be able to read them, but I forget how and don’t want to admit it)

What do you mean by “upon reaching the destination airport, ensuring that all applicable NOTAMs have been received.”? Why do we need to go check for NOTAMs after we land?

Ken

22

Scott I agree completely that it’s important to check for all NOTMAS prior to any departure. It can be difficult, as you know, to get all the NOTAMS because of the distribution system. The FSS giving the briefing may not know about NOTAMS for an airport 500 miles away.
In any event I don’t see how using electronic charts that are upgraded every 2 weeks is worse than a paper subscription that includes notams in the package. What am I missing?

23

Ken,

Just a couple of comments - I don’t mean to speak for Scott, but there were a couple things I wanted to mention:

In reply to:

I could see where this habbit may settle in, but we should always check for NOTAMs and AIRMETs before every flight. I admit that I don’t file a flight plan and check for airmets on a good VFR day for a flight of less than 45 minutes or so. But I should. I’m not sure that is because I have a moving map or because I am lazy. Maybe both. But on cross country flights, I do it all.

IMHO, if you choose not to look up AIRMETs before a local flight on a nice, beautiful VFR day, that’s your perogative, and I admit to doing the same. But PLEASE do check the NOTAMs, no matter how short the flight, even a flight in the pattern.

Why? Well, to put it bluntly, by not checking the weather, the worst you could do is get yourself into some trouble. By not checking the NOTAMs, you could hurt all of us in general aviation. There have been so many cases of people busting TFRs (for example, the Camp David TFR which seems to change size on a daily basis), that rumors have it that TSA is thinking of making the TFRs for presidential and other high-level travel MUCH larger (i.e. the Camp David, DC, and Crawford TFRs). So please, as a friendly request, do check NOTAMS (both FDC and local/distant) before EVERY flight!

In reply to:

I think it’s a very powerful tool to be able to go on-line, file a flight plan electronically, and print out all NOTAMs from there. (instead of using a slow pencil) Even more so, have the computer translate the code into english. Is this available anywhere? I know that Avidyne is promoting this feature for their weather uplink, but can I get it on-line at DUATs or somewhere? Commercial pilots who look at them every day are used to the codes, but if it were in english instead of codes, I would be likely to take the time to review the NOTAMs. (I am also intimidated and embarrassed because I should be able to read them, but I forget how and don’t want to admit it)

DUATs is one way that you mentioned, it can help translate the NOTAM language (but be careful!) and also let you get a hard copy of the NOTAMs without writing them down.

But you can also call a FSS briefer, who will be more than happy to give you “plain english” NOTAMs if you just ask them to clarify, or if you don’t understand a NOTAM they give you. On the one hand, you will have to write down what they say – but on the other hand, the briefers tend to do a better job of not giving you all the various NOTAMs that DUATS gives you (i.e. NOTAMS in Afghanistan, etc.)

In flight, even without a datalink, you can always call FSS or FlightWatch (EFAS) to get NOTAM information. In fact, I did exactly this once, when returning to the DC area after a less-than-stellar preflight briefing from a distant FSS; I wasn’t convinced that he gave me correct TFR information (since he didn’t, for example, even mention the Camp David TFR that I was flying near), so I called FlightWatch on my way to double check.

Just my $0.02. I am also a low-time single-engine land instrument pilot, too!

Steve

24

In reply to:

So, please don’t take my reply as argumentative, but education seeking.

Ken,

This is an education for all of us. I don’t use electronic charts as of yet, but have flown with several folks who do.

In reply to:

For instance, a good pilot will listen to a VOR’s morris code when they tune in to it and confirm that it is the right one, or it is active.

Excellent example, Ken. The identification of NAVAIDs is a must if you are going to predicate the safety of your flight on them. The Morse code identification feature of a VOR, DME, ADF or localizer is not an option for safe flight, it is mandatory (a few pilots have learned this the hard way). The GPS is an excellent source as a backup, however, won’t tell you anything about the operation of the VOR (unusable radials, outages, etc.)

In reply to:

Therefore, are you saying that pilots who have their current GPS card, may think they have everything there is to know about their destination at their fingertips and don’t need to check NOTAMs?

To the contrary. Now that you have a GPS card, the NOTAM search becomes even more intense as you now have to check GPS (and NAVDATA) NOTAMs.

In reply to:

When you say “electronic” versions of the charts, are you saying jepp charts on a laptop or tablet, or are you also including GPS receivers and moving maps?

My main emphasis was on the electronic versions of the charts. But all of this discussion implies all forms of electronic data. These NOTAMs are those that we would get from DUATS or FSS. They may include changes to the procedures and charts, airways, airports, frequencies, NAVAIDs, etc. Once the NOTAM is published, you may not get this as part of your normal FSS briefing. Are these available in electronic form? How do you annotate these on your electronic charts?

With my Jepp charts, I have a set of NOTAMs in paper form included and updated with my subscription. Are these also available in electronic form? Since I don’t use these electronic versions, I don’t know the answer. Also, the A/FD has a ton of published information that is very important and has to be identified. Is this information available in electronic form?

In reply to:

What do you mean by “upon reaching the destination airport, ensuring that all applicable NOTAMs have been received.”? Why do we need to go check for NOTAMs after we land?

Once you terminate the flight, there’s no need to check NOTAMs. I was referring to our preflight planning to be sure we can get from point A to point B having discovered everything concerning our flight. “Everything” is a strong word, but aspects such as published runway closures, NAVAID outages, MEA and procedure changes, for example should be part of this check. In other words, running our proposed flight through DUATs is not enough to satisfy this requirement.

25

In reply to:

In any event I don’t see how using electronic charts that are upgraded every 2 weeks is worse than a paper subscription that includes notams in the package.

Jerry,

If the subscription includes NOTAMs in the package, then that’s great. The couple of folks that I’ve flown with said their subscription didn’t come with NOTAMs (or that they couldn’t find them). I don’t know which subscriptions they had.

Question: Does your subscription come with all of the data listed in the A/FD? How about those published in the NOTAMs document (Federal Aviation Order 7930.2H)?

26

Paul,
I give you only my previously experience about GHz and Ram concerning to run FliteStar/View/Deck.
2,5 years ago I changed my notebook with one of the most powerfull (at this time) 750MHz with 256 of RAM with “only” 8MB of graphic video memory.
It support quite slowly “the weight” of ha 2h flight plan needing too many second for pass from one page to another. More, if you selected on it sid, arrival and star, most of the time, clicking on these, the screen refuse to show you some detail of the approch chart or some time, you could see only the white paper without any information on it.
Running same software /same flight plan on my descktop (an honest 1,6GHz 512RAM and a 32 MB video memory, it took 4/5 time less to pass from on page to another and without any fault.
I boosted the same notebook with addtional 256MB of RAM few months ago (total 512), and now it is more fast then before and I can see all the page every time (anyway, slower than the descktop).

I’m not an expert on PC (Gordon where are you…?), but I tink anyway that for these software, more than a honest qty of GHz and RAM, you can take more performance with a good qty of video memory (some graphics memory up to 32MB).

Now in a good descktop PC you can have video memory of 64, and 128 MB, but still on notebook I can found frequently no more than 8 / 16 and only in few case 32 MB of video memory. Especially in small screen size notebook (that is better for size in flight…) I found low GHz and 8 to max 16MB of video memory! Like in the new Tablet PC: low GHz and small video memory.

On my research on it, only a couple of tablet PC had 1 or up to 1,33GHz, but only the TOSHIBA Portege declare a video memory of 16MB. All other 8.

I’ll be really interested on some info or suggestion from someone of us that know much more than me about this matter.

Also will be interesting to know how recognise the screen brigtness of different model because I know than there is a big difference from one type and one other. An important things in sunlight during flight.

Someone can help?

27

Scott, JeppView comes with NOTAMS for enroute charts and for approach charts. When you call up an airport and list the procedures available there is a tab called, appropriately, NOTAMS. A click on that tab will provide the NOTAMS. I think (but admit I’m not sure) all the data on the paper subscriptions is duplicated. I also will admit that with the paper you get a list of NOTAMS that is fairly easy to screen to see if any apply to where you want to go. The electronic NOTAM requires an extra step and is easy to overlook.
I do think it’s worth checking all available NOTAMS on every weather briefing, either by DUATS or FSS.
JeppView is the only electronic charting service I’m familiar with and I love not having to file charts every two weeks. I know the US Gov’t alternative but I really prefer the layout of the Jepps as well as the ability to print out the charts I need on letter size paper to sooth my presbyopic eyes.

28

Jerry,

Does this service carry all of the same information as you would see in the A/FD? Or do you still need to buy the A/FD?

29

Scott, You’ve got me on that one. I’m ashamed to admit it but in my 36 years of flying I’ve never purchased the A/FD. Since I’m not exactly sure of everything that’s in it I don’t know that JeppView gives me all the data. What I do know is that I think I have all the information I need to operate safely. JeppView gives me all the Jepp charts, airports, IAPs, DPs and STARS. All frequencies are there as are runway lengths, widths, visual aids etc.
Since I’ve never bought the thing I don’t know if I still need to!
As you can imagine, this admission is very embarrassing.

30

In reply to:

Since I’ve never bought the thing I don’t know if I still need to! As you can imagine, this admission is very embarrassing.

Well, if embarrassment likes company, here I am, Jerry. I have also never used it in 29 years of flying, other than teaching primary students about it in the late 70s. I also get all of the information I need from Jeppesen and other sources (e.g., online). I don’t have anything against the AFD; I’ve just never found it necessary, given other sources of information (like AirNav).

31

Jerry,

Do you use the Jepp View on the computer in the cockpit?

I sometimes find myself deciding to change destination airports while in the air. How difficult is that to look up data on the computer?

Even if a computer is used in the cockpit, I would assume at a minimum one would need paper copies of a Sectional, Low Enroute Chart, Approach Charts, and an A/FD. At a minimum the Approach Charts in paper form need to be current.

I have been looking at the Fujuitsu Lifebook , a 3.4 pound laptop with a internal cd/dvd. This to me would be better than a tablet pc, but more work to use in the cockpit.

Mason

32

Gordon, I too am a huge fan of AIRNAV. And the price is right.

33

In reply to:

I don’t have anything against the AFD; I’ve just never found it necessary, given other sources of information (like AirNav).

Me neither. I know it’s the main “official” source for a lot of the info, but I find other sources a lot more convenient.

  • Mike.
34

How do you get traffic pattern altitude. I don’t see it in AirNav or on the Jepp airport chart?“Well, if embarrassment likes company, here I am, Jerry. I have also never used it in 29 years of flying, other than teaching primary students about it in the late 70s. I also get all of the information I need from Jeppesen and other sources (e.g., online). I don’t have anything against the AFD; I’ve just never found it necessary, given other sources of information (like AirNav).”

35

Mason,

I do not use Jeppview, but I do have the Fujitsu Siemens Lifebook 2010 DVD/CDRW an can recommend it highly to you. But the standard Li-ion battery just quit, without notice after recharging for the 2nd time.

Jaap

36

Mason, what I do is print all the charts I expect to need for a trip. I carry my laptop with me for emergency use only. It was OK in my Duke but I find it cumbersome in the Cirrus. First of all the screen is hard to read if it’s bright. Second, the cockpit is smaller and it’s hard to maneuver the computer if there is someone in the right seat. The information is there and only requires a few keystrokes to bring up. Seeing it clearly is the issue.
I’m comfortable in that I have a complete set of current charts available on the computer and the probability of needing to use them is low since I print charts for a number of airports along my route.
My out is that if I have to get down NOW I have lateral information available in the Garmins and I can get vertical (altitude) information from the controller.
Nevertheless, I’d like to find a reasonably priced tablet type computer with a very bright screen that would be good for cockpit use.

37

Mason, I can recommend the Lifebook. I’m on my second one - I passed the first down to my office manager, and I now have the S6110 which has 512MB RAM as standard and a 1.2GHz processor, built in wireless lan, AND USB 2.0 so I can copy my CDs to the Archos Recorder at high speed.

But it’s best feature is the light weight. The only missing element is that it does not have a built in serial port (the included expansion dock does) so you will need a USB-serial adapter to connect it in-flight to a GPS. I haven’t done that, but do use it for JeppView and have just got FlightStar on it.

Cheers, Clyde

38

Jaap,

Thanks, I am about to order it. I think I wil get the extended battery and the 384 of RAM.

This looks like a good solution till the tablet PC get a little more mature

Mason

39

Jerry,

Good points. I think the tablet PC market is really going to be fun in about 6 months to a year. The early adopters are supporting the hign prices now. They are sure to fall.

Mason

40

Jerry,

When you print approach charts from Jepp View, do they print in kneeboard size fo the small knee boards or do you have to cut the paper?

Do you print in color??

Thanks
Mason