Which forum should I be looking at? I’m looking to spend a max of 250000. Looking for low engine time, an upgraded autopilot such as a DFC 90 or 100, Upgraded avionics including ADSB, TKS, Hot Prop, decent paint and interior. No damage history. Not used as a rental or by a flight school. Possibly upgraded with tornado alley turbo.
David, welcome. For starters, here are my suggestions:
- Post a “Want to Buy” thread in the Marketplace forum. Many COPA members never read the public Guest Discussion forum.
- Start studying the offerings on controller.com daily. Compare what is available and the offering prices. That will help you to start zeroing in on what options you have, what you want and what things cost.
- Unless you are extremely comfortable and experienced with purchasing airplanes, use Savvy to oversee the prebuy inspection process.
- If a plane is listed with a broker, always keep in mind that the broker represents the Seller’s interest, not yours. The big brokers are all honest, but their incentive is to close a sale at the highest possible price. Be realistic, but offer what a given aircraft is worth to YOU. Always be prepared to bow out and walk away if the process is not to your liking. And do it.
Good luck. Enjoy the process.
I’d suggest you speak to some brokers who really know the Cirrus market well, like Jaime Steele. Yes, they’re looking to sell aircraft but they have a wealth of information you could glean to help educate yourself about the current market. You may or may not wind up buying through a broker but the good ones are well worth the commission.
By the way the worst thing you can do to an aircraft is let it sit unused, like any mechanical equipment. So beware of “low time engine” claims on older planes. They may have been sitting for months or years without use. It’s more common than you may imagine. Once you’ve located an aircraft you want to make an offer on have a prebuy inspection completed by Savvy Aviation or Jim Barker in Wisconsin
And in your price range you may want to consider buying a plane with a worn out engine and having it overhauled or replaced with a new one. An older aircraft that has been used regularly and well maintained could be a bargain.
Finally you need to consider the higher maintenance costs if you choose to go with a turbo. If you intend to fly high regularly it certainly could make sense. Just be aware of the costs to do so. Tornado Alley turbo replacement parts can be pricy. Good luck.
A 2004-2006 SR22 GTS is a great plane in that price range which you can find with DFC90. Cirrus Does not have Hot props, you can get TKS which has a slinger on the prop for de-ice, The G2 has a 50 pound heavier wing than a G3, therefore, you may not wan the added weight and complexity of a turbo. Really depends on your mission profile which you did not allude to, Good luck with your search and Welcome to COPA.
Welcome to COPA.
A few one line comments:
A DFC 90 is a common upgrade on the Avidyne planes.
You will only find a DFC100 on an Avidyne R9 converted plane. R9 is a wonderful system, more on par with a newer Cirrus’s Perspective avionics. They are out there but not a ton of them.
ADS-B still seems not real common an option in the planes for sale. Or so it appears to me. It is an expensive option to add which may be shaking some out for sale rather than pay to upgrade them.
A turbo in that price range is probably a little hopeful. At least in any reasonable condition at all.
You probably should look at 2003 G1’s to 2006 G2’s. Those would have glass avionics and TKS and more likely to have your specified items.
You should move to member pages, there is a ton of good info. Start in forums try here https://www.cirruspilots.org/g/ subscribe to the forums you are interested in. Good luck, there are over a million posts in there. It is like drinking from a fire hose.
My mission profile is at present the entire state of CA. To get from Southern CA to Northern CA I need to climb to 10000 to 12000 feet routinely… At what altitude does a SR 22 with full fuel and 300 pounds of pilot and gear start to climb below 500 feet per minute? One of the reasons I’m moving away from my C182 is she does not climb well above 8000 feet. Less than 200 feet per minute over 10000 feet even in winter. I have 12 satellite offiices from San Diego all the way to Sacramento.
What is the load? How many people and how much baggage?
What is the longest leg in miles?
Longest flight would be 400 miles. Call it 900 lbs pilot gear and fuel.
I regularly fly between 13K to 16K around 3000 lbs. I am able to maintain easily 500 fpm till around 12K and see it dropping into the upper 300 FPM.
For example, my plane’s empty weight is 2365 pounds (air conditioning, back seat O2). So the useful load is 1035 pounds.
If it is filled up with 81 gallons, that would leave 549 pounds for pilot, passengers and baggage. A 400 mile trip would take 2:30 hours (no wind) and consume 38 gallons (lean of peak engine operation).
Of course if I want to carry more, I would put in 56 gallons. That gives me another 150 pounds. Flying time would be 4 hours and would cover 696 miles.
With an hour reserve, this would be reduced to 3 hours flying, covering 522 miles.
My plane is a normally aspirated, 2004 SR22. If you skip on the a/c, it will have better range and slightly more speed.
You’ll be looking for a long time for that one, since no Cirrus has one!
Bag this Guest forum, which has nothing and is ignored by the vast majority of members, and post your questions in the Members forums.
My biggest suggestion is to use the Search function, using keywords for your items of interest. There are, after all, literally a million posts here. I usually select “Sort by date” in the results so you see more recent stuff at the top of the list. Caution - you may see threads that are 15 years old and if you are going to post a response it is better to start a new thread than to awaken a 15-year-old thread.
Zero reason to take full fuel on that trip. Also, you said 300 lbs of pilot and gear, so that would leave 600 for fuel - more than any SR can take. A G1/2 has 81 gallon tanks, so that will be 486 lbs. You won’t nearly need that for 400 nm. It pays to not fully fuel all the time and to calculate this stuff if you want max performance.
once again, I’d like to point you to the free POHs available online and specifically chapter 5 “Performance “ in those. They contain exactly the data you are looking for. For example, a fully loaded G1/2 will climb with 565 rpm at 14000 feet. Call it “above 500”, if not by much. Full tanks and flying at 12000 will get you 785 nm range plus reserves, the book says. It’s all in there. The Cirrus aircraft pretty much do achieve book numbers. Apply a 5 percent fudge factor and you’re well on the safe side.
If you are concerned about climb performance, get the Turbo which yields full 100% power all the way to FL250. Most turbos have an absolute ceiling, this one does not. You can climb faster and cruise faster (sometimes only one way). The biggest draw back is reduced useful load, but sounds like your mission is mainly solo and even with a passenger you are good for 400 miles. Works for me and Perhaps the best bargain is a G3 TN Perspective, not the cheapest but best overall value IMHO. I Love my aircraft, So of course I’m bias. YMMV
Couple concerns… Increased cost + 90K for just turbo, decreased TBO time, Decreased weight and balance, shock cooling risk, maintenance and complexity. But I hear you…
What is this? Is this something that everyone knows about? Except me?
Actually a G3 turbo cost the same or Less than a NA. Look on controller and you will find 48 G3 turbos and probably 15 NA. This was a high prodution year for Cirrus and most Ordered Fully loaded aircraft with Turbos so lots of them to choose from and you’re getting the Turbo for Free compared to the upgrade price when buying new. I haven’t had any turbo related mx issues but knowing a good Mechanic and who to use for parts goes a long way. A turbo overhaul is $1500-$2000, overall that’s not expensive in AMU. Fly the bird regularly 75% or lower power, climb ROP, cruise LOP, Maintain CHT below 360 and EGT below 1600 and you will have a great experience. Plus the engine management on turbo is easier, full Rich all the way to cruise, no leaning as you climb like NA. Can you tell I like my turbo…
Shock cooling is more of an issue on turbo charged aircraft pushing 40-50” MP. It’s still a good idea to stage cool but going from 75% to 50% is not really detrimental. Going from 50” to 20” MP is much more devastating.
I will think about it… What about Fuel Burn and my other concerns?
I know you’re focused on buying, but while you’re thinking about that, here’s a wiki that was a summary of a great thread a while back for folks new to Cirrus.
EDIT: Couldn’t tell from your original post if you’re new to Cirrus or not, if you aren’t new to Cirrus this may be redundant.
Seeing whats available on controller, i think you need to keep saving; If you can get up to $330k + tax i think you find a lot of options, but down at $250k you will have your work cut out for you.
As a fellow 07’ SR22TN owner i will echo the other peoples comments; thing just performs. So going up to 12k is no issue; I fly a lot from the bay area to Tahoe and PHX area at 12k; even with fully loaded lop climbs i get about 500fpm, so you are on the right track for your needs;