# Installing other avionics/instruments **URL:** \ **Category:** Guest Discussion\ **Created:** [April 21, 2001, 2:22am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/installing-other-avionics-instruments/38021 "2001-04-21T02:22:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UnknownPreviousUser](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/unknownprevioususer/32/89805_2.png) [@UnknownPreviousUser](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/UnknownPreviousUser)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2001, 2:22am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/installing-other-avionics-instruments/38021/1 "2001-04-21T02:22:01Z")
The main reason I have held-off from seriously considering the SR22 is that there seems to be no place to put anything in the panel but what Cirrus puts in the panel. I have become convinced that a 2nd attitude indicator is a must in IFR, even in an all electric plane. The problem is, where do I put it? The panel seems a little full. Also, how about an engine monitor? I am not too convinced that I want to trust everything to the Arnav display (nor do I really want the Arnav display–a Garmin 530 would be preferable). Any thoughts or comments? ---
**Author:** ![UnknownPreviousUser](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/unknownprevioususer/32/89805_2.png) [@UnknownPreviousUser](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/UnknownPreviousUser)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2001, 11:24pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/installing-other-avionics-instruments/38021/2 "2001-04-21T23:24:47Z")
> The main reason I have held-off from seriously considering the SR22 is that there seems to be no place to put anything in the panel but what Cirrus puts in the panel. I have become convinced that a 2nd attitude indicator is a must in IFR, even in an all electric plane. The problem is, where do I put it? The panel seems a little full. Also, how about an engine monitor? I am not too convinced that I want to trust everything to the Arnav display (nor do I really want the Arnav display–a Garmin 530 would be preferable). Any thoughts or comments? Hello Tom, these were just first private thoughts of mine on Doug’s accident; I wasn’t sure to post them… a very bad thing has happened - and it could happen to almost all of us. I feel very sorry for Doug Koehler and his family. Somehow I have the feeling that Doug didn’t have a superior situational awareness in that moment. This is not criticism or any kind of comment on his skills. The point is the “benefit” of the ARNAV. Among others, CD too, claims the superior situational awarenes as the big plus of this big … (whatever). OK you should navigate with a proper chart, thats what I do, but in this case best thing would be to use a modified/doubled “approach plate holder” of Ed Boland to place a sectional in front of the Arnav. If the crash is somehow related to Arnav’s database accuracy I’m very concerned about how usefull it is at all. From former posts I learned the US database is boguos regarding topography AND airspace (class B); but it seems to be completely useless in Europe. As Han Klingspoor said a while ago, best use for it would be as an anchor for his boat. CD should stop behaving like a little child (“no, we don’t want to offer another as an option with less than 10” ") and let their customers decide what equipment they want, since they pay for it. At least also the option of not having this big piece of trouble installed at all would be acceptable; with adequate reduction in price. Let the customers the possibility in choosing another/superior product. We shouldn’t belong to the next figures in Rich Karlgaards number crunching on piston aircrafts’ safety, Wilfried ---
**Author:** ![UnknownPreviousUser](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/unknownprevioususer/32/89805_2.png) [@UnknownPreviousUser](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/UnknownPreviousUser)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 1:15am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/installing-other-avionics-instruments/38021/3 "2001-04-22T01:15:41Z")
> (“no, we don’t want to offer another as an option with less than 10” ") and let their customers decide what equipment they want, since they pay for it. At least also the option of not having this big piece of trouble installed at all would be acceptable; with adequate reduction in price. I notice that Lancair is offering a 10" Avetec which is IFR cerfied and provides current VFR and IFR enroute chartes as well as stormscope. I was trying to figure out why they made such a point of stressing that the display was IFR certified. Now I think I understand. ---
**Author:** ![UnknownPreviousUser](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/unknownprevioususer/32/89805_2.png) [@UnknownPreviousUser](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/UnknownPreviousUser)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 11:17am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/installing-other-avionics-instruments/38021/4 "2001-04-22T11:17:34Z")
Don’t want to sound like the FAA, but, as far as I have seen, there is no evidence that the ARNAV database for this area (or the topography for the US) is incorrect. This is something which could be VERY easily checked. And I assume it has been - probably dozens of times over the last week. Until it is established that there is a database error, this type of speculation is a real dis-service to everyone involved. Bob > > The main reason I have held-off from seriously considering the SR22 is that there seems to be no place to put anything in the panel but what Cirrus puts in the panel. I have become convinced that a 2nd attitude indicator is a must in IFR, even in an all electric plane. The problem is, where do I put it? The panel seems a little full. Also, how about an engine monitor? I am not too convinced that I want to trust everything to the Arnav display (nor do I really want the Arnav display–a Garmin 530 would be preferable). Any thoughts or comments? > > > Hello Tom, these were just first private thoughts of mine on Doug’s accident; I wasn’t sure to post them… > a very bad thing has happened - and it could happen to almost all of us. > I feel very sorry for Doug Koehler and his family. > > Somehow I have the feeling that Doug didn’t have a superior situational awareness in that moment. This is not criticism or any kind of comment on his skills. > > The point is the “benefit” of the ARNAV. Among others, CD too, claims the superior situational awarenes as the big plus of this big … (whatever). OK you should navigate with a proper chart, thats what I do, but in this case best thing would be to use a modified/doubled “approach plate holder” of Ed Boland to place a sectional in front of the Arnav. > > If the crash is somehow related to Arnav’s database accuracy I’m very concerned about how usefull it is at all. From former posts I learned the US database is boguos regarding topography AND airspace (class B); but it seems to be completely useless in Europe. As Han Klingspoor said a while ago, best use for it would be as an anchor for his boat. > CD should stop behaving like a little child (“no, we don’t want to offer another as an option with less than 10” ") and let their customers decide what equipment they want, since they pay for it. At least also the option of not having this big piece of trouble installed at all would be acceptable; with adequate reduction in price. > Let the customers the possibility in choosing another/superior product. > > We shouldn’t belong to the next figures in Rich Karlgaards number crunching on piston aircrafts’ safety, > > Wilfried ---
**Author:** ![UnknownPreviousUser](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/unknownprevioususer/32/89805_2.png) [@UnknownPreviousUser](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/UnknownPreviousUser)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 1:26pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/installing-other-avionics-instruments/38021/5 "2001-04-22T13:26:28Z")
> Don’t want to sound like the FAA, but, as far as I have seen, there is no evidence that the ARNAV database for this area (or the topography for the US) is incorrect. Absolutely, Bob. Here are some of the possibilities that I’ve pondered: * * * Distractions caused by… Lighting Hail Downdraft Turbulence * * * Bird strike * * * Argument * * * Something rolling around on the floor Strange noise from somewhere Strange smell from somewhere Smoke * * * Passenger or pilot medical problem… Toothache Nausea Headache Stomach Heart Need to urinate Fatigue Hypoxia * * * Engine running rough Pitot icing (pitot heat working?) * * * The longer I think about it, the more possible scenarios I can come up with - and I keep thinking about the “distraction” angle, not any of the hard failures that COULD have occurred. The technology and experience of the NTSB and accident investigators MIGHT uncover such a problem (although it must be very difficult in this case); but I doubt that anyone will ever really understand the human factors involved. It’s really very important that we all remember that there’s a lot that can go wrong in our airborne cocoon; and we should feel neither superior nor complacent just because we haven’t fallen victim to one… yet. Here’s another possibility. I know it’s a real one, because it happened to me. I was stung on the face by a bee, which I first noticed buzzing around the cockpit just as I was on final approach. I kept thinking “I wonder if anyone will know WHY I died?”. I was lucky… All this is, of course, just my opinion; I have no way of knowing what really happened. And that’s the point. - Mike. ---
**Author:** ![UnknownPreviousUser](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/unknownprevioususer/32/89805_2.png) [@UnknownPreviousUser](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/UnknownPreviousUser)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 4:23pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/installing-other-avionics-instruments/38021/6 "2001-04-22T16:23:20Z")
> This is something which could be VERY easily checked. And I assume it has been - probably dozens of times over the last week. Until it is established that there is a database error, this type of speculation is a real dis-service to everyone involved. > Yes. I checked my ARNAV database with the Phoenix sectional map. The mountains east of Tucson show up on ARNAV the same way they do on the sectional. ---
**Author:** ![UnknownPreviousUser](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/unknownprevioususer/32/89805_2.png) [@UnknownPreviousUser](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/UnknownPreviousUser)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 10:50pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/installing-other-avionics-instruments/38021/7 "2001-04-22T22:50:16Z")
> Don’t want to sound like the FAA, … neither me. Sorry if my private thoughts looked like that and caused a misunderstanding; it wasn’t the intention of them. Wilfried ---
**Author:** ![UnknownPreviousUser](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/unknownprevioususer/32/89805_2.png) [@UnknownPreviousUser](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/UnknownPreviousUser)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2001, 10:26pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/installing-other-avionics-instruments/38021/8 "2001-04-22T22:26:49Z")
You’re right Mike ---
**Author:** ![UnknownPreviousUser](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/unknownprevioususer/32/89805_2.png) [@UnknownPreviousUser](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/UnknownPreviousUser)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2001, 12:40am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/installing-other-avionics-instruments/38021/9 "2001-04-24T00:40:15Z")
> > Don’t want to sound like the FAA, > > … neither me. > Sorry if my private thoughts looked like that and caused a misunderstanding Private thoughts are not posted on the internet. mdz >