# COPA Migration Arrival, Departure, and FBO NOTAM **URL:** \ **Category:** COPA Migrations\ **Created:** [September 15, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947 "2023-09-15T17:11:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ethannarber](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/ethannarber/32/188353_2.png) [@ethannarber](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/ethannarber)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/1 "2023-09-15T17:11:30Z")
We’re getting close! Hope everyone is looking forward to Migration in Kansas City! The attached NOTAM is an outline of information for those who are flying into Wheeler Downtown. Under the Taxi & Parking section is a hyperlink to view a document from Signature regarding FBO-specific information, pricing, and contact info. Please make sure to click that link to view the page. If you have any questions, feel free to send me a PM or an email at [Ethan@CirrusPilots.org](mailto:Ethan@CirrusPilots.org). [COPA Migration 2023 NOTAM.pdf](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/uploads/short-url/p8edJRy4VfB7hLxDkAFj1pAJTw0.pdf) (7.3 MB) ---
**Author:** ![hanstb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/hanstb/32/163162_2.png) [@hanstb](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/hanstb)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/2 "2023-09-15T17:53:18Z")
Pinned globally on September 15, 2023, 5:53pm UTC ---
**Author:** ![jamesmblum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/jamesmblum/32/133433_2.png) [@jamesmblum](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/jamesmblum)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/3 "2023-09-15T18:51:01Z")
Released before Vantage. Strong work. ---
**Author:** ![dennish](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/dennish/32/86555_2.png) [@dennish](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/dennish)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 3:00am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/5 "2023-09-16T03:00:58Z")
Ethan; I clicked on your PDF where is says “Click here” and it brings up the details of Signature Flight support; With a 10 gallon minimum, it appears that Signature is charging $1.50 per gallon. Can you confirm this please. ---
**Author:** ![ethannarber](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/ethannarber/32/188353_2.png) [@ethannarber](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/ethannarber)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 3:03am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/6 "2023-09-16T03:03:05Z")
Current Retail less $1.50 is our rate for the event. ---
**Author:** ![dennish](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/dennish/32/86555_2.png) [@dennish](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/dennish)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 3:07am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/7 "2023-09-16T03:07:55Z")
So, is it fair to say that Wed-departing Sunday, the costs are $59.00 plus $7.01 per gallon (after discount) based upon today’s price and minimum 10 gallons? Ergo, we can’t get in and out of that field for migration for no less then $70.10 +$59 = $129.10 ---
**Author:** ![hanstb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/hanstb/32/163162_2.png) [@hanstb](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/hanstb)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 3:11am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/8 "2023-09-16T03:11:31Z")
> [@dennish](#): > > Wed-departing Sunday, the costs are $59.00 plus $7.01 per gallon based upon todays price? That is correct Dennis, with a 10 gallon minimum fuel purchase. ---
**Author:** ![dennish](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/dennish/32/86555_2.png) [@dennish](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/dennish)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 3:22am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/9 "2023-09-16T03:22:01Z")
> [@hanstb](#): > > That is correct Dennis. And the Kansas City Airport Authority at the airport is selling their gas retail for $5.49? So, their pump is charging $1.51 per gallon less than the discounted great deal that Signature is giving us? The Signature discounted great price of $108.72 more that the airport pump for 72 gallons? ---
**Author:** ![jamesmblum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/jamesmblum/32/133433_2.png) [@jamesmblum](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/jamesmblum)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 3:34am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/10 "2023-09-16T03:34:40Z")
Welcome to the cirrus life. Own the plane, get raked over the coals. There are a limited number of city GA spots on the field we can all fight for. ---
**Author:** ![msellers](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/msellers/32/1337_2.png) [@msellers](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/msellers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 3:56am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/11 "2023-09-16T03:56:06Z")
> [@dennish](#): > > And the Kansas City Airport Authority at the airport is selling their gas retail for $5.49? So the self serve pump is charging $1.51 per gallon more than the discounted great deal that Signature is giving us I fly in/out of KC Downtown on a regular basis. The self service pump is REALLY not handy to get to, and Signature is always more expensive. There are many airports like it sadly that the FBO vs Self-Service is vastly different in price. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_Whittier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/roger_whittier/32/85023_2.png) [@Roger\_Whittier](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/Roger_Whittier)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 4:52am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/12 "2023-09-16T04:52:47Z")
> [@hanstb](#): > > That is correct Dennis, Maybe I read it wrong but: The no fuel option was on the left and it required a 59 dollar handling fee and 26 dollar per night. Both have an infrastructure fee, no difference. That would be 58 plus 7 plus 104 for ramp fees. Total $169. With a 10 gal purchase (right column applies) the handling fee is waived, the parking is 13 per night. So if you buy minimum fuel it will be 71.00 for fuel, 52 for ramp fees, 7 bucks infrastructure for a total of $130. 39 Bucks cheaper AND you get 10 gallons for free. A little sarcasm… I generally avoid Signature. But in this case, for them, it is a surprisingly better deal to buy the fuel. BUT only if you restrict fuel to 10 gallons. In my case I marginally need a fuel stop. If I plan it right I can get only 10 gallons and then a cheap fuel stop in the middle somewhere. Unless I got it wrong… ---
**Author:** ![msellers](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/msellers/32/1337_2.png) [@msellers](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/msellers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 4:58am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/13 "2023-09-16T04:58:29Z")
> [@Roger\_Whittier](#): > > But in this case, for them, it is a surprisingly better deal to buy the fuel. BUT only if you restrict fuel to 10 gallons. I find that MOST larger airports I stop at with Signature, Atlantic, Million you are better to take the fuel to waive the fees as at least you get fuel for the same fee ---
**Author:** ![dunham62](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/dunham62/32/281_2.png) [@dunham62](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/dunham62)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/14 "2023-09-16T22:27:16Z")
Are we all debating about paying much less than 0.1 AU more? I look for cheaper fuel as much as anyone but there are times when you have to suck t up and spend a little more to put fuel in your multi-100k airplane. ---
**Author:** ![jglackin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/jglackin/32/191771_2.png) [@jglackin](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/jglackin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 9:32am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/15 "2023-09-17T09:32:23Z")
> [@Roger\_Whittier](#): > > I generally avoid Signature Signature is always a last resort for me. Only if I absolutely have to. ---
**Author:** ![dennish](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/dennish/32/86555_2.png) [@dennish](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/dennish)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 12:00pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/16 "2023-09-17T12:00:23Z")
> [@jglackin](#): > > Signature is always a last resort for me. Only if I absolutely have to. I guess that the point of my initial commentary and calculation were based upon my broader business & economic philosophy. “JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN, DOESN’T MEAN YOU SHOULD” Signature is industry notorious for . . . . Well let’s just call it, maximizing their opportunities; I get it. They are a profit making business, as are most of us. Perhaps somebody can approximate how much Signature will gross when 300 or so aircraft fly in for a long weekend. Would pricing at least contemporary with surrounding airports be appropriate? Again, a business decision. Perhaps a contribution to our Safety and Education Foundation would soften the burden. Having been to and organized many of the prior Migrations, I don’t recall such a pricing structure. ---
**Author:** ![jglackin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/jglackin/32/191771_2.png) [@jglackin](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/jglackin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 12:18pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/17 "2023-09-17T12:18:56Z")
> [@dennish](#): > > Having been to and organized many of the prior Migrations, I don’t recall such a pricing structure Having never done anything at all, other than kick in a few bucks to the SEF, I have to accept that the generous volunteers that have put this all together have done what they reasonably can to arrange something affordable for the attendees. TBH, as someone pointed out, $129 is nothing for people that fly machines that cost more than the average American’s home. Especially in a group that has seemingly endless strings of posts about which jet to buy, turbo prop to buy, boats, cars, motorcycles, second and third homes, epic trips and coffee machines that run into the $1000’s. I’m no money bag, by any means, but the only part of spending this $129 that bothers me is that it goes to Signature. It doesn’t bother me enough to stress the volunteers that put it together for us about it. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![dennish](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/dennish/32/86555_2.png) [@dennish](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/dennish)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 12:54pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/18 "2023-09-17T12:54:59Z")
> [@jglackin](#): > > Having never done anything at all, other than kick in a few bucks to the SEF, I have to accept that the generous volunteers that have put this all together have done what they reasonably can to arrange something affordable for the attendees. TBH, as someone pointed out Just a point of clarification Jim. SEF (a 501(c)(3) tax deductible organization) does not put together the Migration. SEF operates in cooperation with COPA (a 501(c)(7) club. Neither are intended to make a profit. None of the many volunteers from either SEF or COPA get paid, but happily volunteer because we care about you and about aviation and about safety. As aviators, we are involved in an industry which has a dearth of aviators, in part because of the costs associated with flying. Of late, extreme cost increases in fuel, aircraft and FBO’s all play into the problem. The few who speak of their cars boats and jets, are a very small part of general aviation. Even then, of this forum, most come to aviation, late in their own careers. Aviation clubs are, in part, created to help us all occupy general aviation in a more economical and educational environment. . ---
**Author:** ![jglackin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/jglackin/32/191771_2.png) [@jglackin](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/jglackin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 1:06pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/19 "2023-09-17T13:06:12Z")
> [@dennish](#): > > SEF (a 501(c)(3) tax deductible organization) does not put together the Migration. SEF operates in cooperation with COPA (a 501(c)(7) club. I stand corrected. I have done absolutely nothing. Lol. I get it. I do. But, again, I have to have faith and trust in the organizers in that they have done what they can to get us a deal. As the only FBO at this airport, I’m sure Signature is in their full glory of sticking it to any fly they catch in their web, so I’m betting that $129 is a smoking deal compared to what they would normally do to us. I’m sure that the average COPA member/pilot is well above average in income and wealth. I’m also sure I’m in the bottom quarter of the percentile here and yet even I’m sitting in first class headed to Costa Rica for a week at a very nice resort. No vegan meal option on this flight. The struggle is real. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_Whittier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/roger_whittier/32/85023_2.png) [@Roger\_Whittier](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/Roger_Whittier)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 1:47pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/20 "2023-09-17T13:47:38Z")
> [@jglackin](#): > > I get it. I do. But, again, I have to have faith and trust in the organizers in that they have done what they can to get us a deal. As the only FBO at this airport, I’m sure Signature is in their full glory of sticking it to any fly they catch in their web, so I’m betting that $129 is a smoking deal compared to what they would normally do to us. The airport, and therefore the FBO, we get to use is a function of the location COPA chooses. There are many criteria used in making that decision. I am also loath to use Signature. But it would make no sense to me to use a further away airport to avoid Signature given transportation costs would quickly eat the difference. As long as Loews in KC is the Migration choice KMKC is the logical airport. Signature or Atlantic are the only two FBO options. Looking at the airport layout only Signature appears to have ramp space we need. I am just going to go and not let Signature interfere with my having a good time. My only other logical choices are more hassle, more expensive or to just not go. None are acceptable choices. BTW, that does not mean I won’t make adaptations. My plan to not enrich Signature has already been developed. I cannot make KMKC non stop. So an airport with attractive fuel prices has been selected. I will stop there both ways. And at KMKC I will put in minimum fuel to get back to the cheap fuel location and to trigger the discounts. That is no skin off my back given I must stop anyway. Life is too short to give any of my anger to this. Just suck it up and adapt to make it work within each persons values. My bit of philosophy this Sunday morning. Worth what you paid for it 😉 ---
**Author:** ![hanstb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/hanstb/32/163162_2.png) [@hanstb](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/hanstb)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947/21 "2023-09-17T14:08:06Z")
> [@Roger\_Whittier](#): > > Looking at the airport layout only Signature appears to have ramp space we need. Not only this, but Atlantic does not have AvGas, only Jet-A. We do our best each year to secure discounted pricing and provide the smoothest possible experience to all our Migration attendees, this year has been especially challenging due to facilities renovations and area roadwork, but we are ready and look forward to welcoming everyone to Migration 2023! For anyone who prefers to use an alternate airport, COPA and the wonderful folks from Kansas City Center, have made every local area airport aware of the event and all would be glad to support your arrival. [Next page](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-arrival-departure-and-fbo-notam/261947.md?page=2)