# COPA Migration 2020, thoughts **URL:** \ **Category:** COPA Migrations\ **Created:** [June 7, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127 "2020-06-07T17:37:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jim\_Barker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/jim_barker/32/104665_2.png) [@Jim\_Barker](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/Jim_Barker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/41 "2020-07-02T23:57:43Z")
Are you serious Jack? ---
**Author:** ![wjlong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/wjlong/32/174131_2.png) [@wjlong](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/wjlong)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/42 "2020-07-03T00:05:18Z")
Yes. If you are a trustee/director of an organization you have a fiduciary duty to protect the organization. Not from all risks, but certainly from obvious risks. At least that is the advice I have received on three boards. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Barker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/jim_barker/32/104665_2.png) [@Jim\_Barker](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/Jim_Barker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/43 "2020-07-03T00:08:54Z")
I understand… I am always amazed at the litigiousness atmosphere here and lack of personal responsibility in America. No one has a gun to their head to attend … (Gordon, Sorry for improper use and spelling errors) ---
**Author:** ![abhishekamit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/abhishekamit/32/951_2.png) [@abhishekamit](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/abhishekamit)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 12:11am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/44 "2020-07-03T00:11:30Z")
IANAL and I have no idea how this would play out in court, but Disney is a pretty risk averse company so I’m sure quite a bit of thought went into this: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/copa/original/3X/3/5/35dae657fe69cf796c1c40577f282ab232012ec1.jpeg) [https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/experience-updates/](https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/experience-updates/) Obviously risk calculation might be different for them since they need parks to open, just another data point. ---
**Author:** ![wjlong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/wjlong/32/174131_2.png) [@wjlong](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/wjlong)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 12:17am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/45 "2020-07-03T00:17:41Z")
Disney can likely insure the risk either through third parties or self insure. This is mainly an issue for the board members. ---
**Author:** ![SR22Tesq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/sr22tesq/32/231_2.png) [@SR22Tesq](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/SR22Tesq)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/46 "2020-07-03T00:57:38Z")
> [@wjlong](#): > > Does COPA have insurance that would cover a COVID related death as a result of a gathering? Yes, COPA has commercial general liability insurance. While not required by law, it is required by all of our major venues and is simply sound business. > [@wjlong](#): > > Our attorney at another organization advised a waiver would likely not be enforceable in this situation. Every attorney is entitled to their opinion. COPA is not an employer or governmental agency. This is strictly a voluntary event that all COPAs can choose to attend or not to attend. > [@wjlong](#): > > If you are a trustee/director of an organization you have a fiduciary duty to protect the organization. Not from all risks, but certainly from obvious risks. Yes and no. Directors of corporations (both non-profit and for profit) owe a fiduciary duty to the corporation as a whole. However, that duty does not extend to each and every individual member. If so, any board action that adversely affected a single member would be a breach. If a director reasonably believes that it is in the organization’s best interest to hold an event, and has balanced the risks with the benefit, then there is no breach. For example, there is an obvious risk that any Cirrus pilot could be killed while traveling to or from a CPPP, but the organization still holds them. COPA has safety and other educational sessions at Migration that are beneficial to our members. ---
**Author:** ![wjlong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/wjlong/32/174131_2.png) [@wjlong](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/wjlong)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/47 "2020-07-03T01:21:40Z")
Again, just advice I have received on other boards that a typical GL policy likely would not cover a COVID claim in the middle of a pandemic absent state law immunity. These other organizations (one of which is an educational entity) are seeking immunity under state law. That has not been forthcoming so far. Of course, lawyers will disagree. Only can be resolved in court. Legal issues aside, I would personally not want to hold a gathering of a large group (especially people at the higher end of the risk spectrum and indoors) in the middle of a pandemic. The educational mission has other avenues of being accomplished that involve a lot less risk. I have no dog in this hunt, just passing on the judgement of several other organizations that had events scheduled this fall. Each of these orgnazations are looking forward to 2021. ---
**Author:** ![SR22Tesq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/sr22tesq/32/231_2.png) [@SR22Tesq](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/SR22Tesq)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 1:24am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/48 "2020-07-03T01:24:55Z")
Jack, your concerns are valid and they were considered. As always, COPA appreciates your wisdom and perspectives. ---
**Author:** ![predmond](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/predmond/32/237_2.png) [@predmond](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/predmond)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 1:47am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/49 "2020-07-03T01:47:23Z")
> [@hanstb](#): > > my hope is Aviators well know that hope is not a plan. Pierre ---
**Author:** ![hanstb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/hanstb/32/163162_2.png) [@hanstb](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/hanstb)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/50 "2020-07-03T02:07:10Z")
> [@predmond](#): > > Aviators well know that hope is not a plan. I’m a lowly pilot, and not a very good one at that… Earlier in this topic I said I would be the first to register, I doubt I clinched the first slot, but I have registered for M18 and **hope** to attend. Let it be known that if I choose to attend, I do so of my own free will, and as always, take full responsibility for my actions, with one caveat… ![Kermit](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/copa/original/3X/d/2/d2b126c4ef2c4126efc2d13685d5e71f49852028.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![ErikGun](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/erikgun/32/789_2.png) [@ErikGun](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/ErikGun)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/51 "2020-07-03T02:07:51Z")
@hanstb you were not the first! ---
**Author:** ![hanstb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/hanstb/32/163162_2.png) [@hanstb](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/hanstb)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 2:10am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/52 "2020-07-03T02:10:53Z")
> [@ErikGun](#): > > you were not the first! Story of my life… 😄 ---
**Author:** ![rsppilot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/rsppilot/32/471_2.png) [@rsppilot](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/rsppilot)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 5:54am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/53 "2020-07-03T05:54:03Z")
Indeed. I have no reason to believe that things will get better by the time of Migration. Quite the opposite from looking at the data and behaviors. We’ve decided not to attend. Maybe next year. ---
**Author:** ![peterlitchfield](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/peterlitchfield/32/1346_2.png) [@peterlitchfield](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/peterlitchfield)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 6:44am UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/54 "2020-07-03T06:44:17Z")
Scott, Thank you for your sound guidance as always. I find it fascinating that amateur pilots will fly themselves long distances across oceans and over poles in small single engine aircraft (a rather high risk activity) and then lose their minds over a rather low risk activity such as gathering in a room with other pilots. One of these is not like the other. ---
**Author:** ![dennish](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/dennish/32/86555_2.png) [@dennish](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/dennish)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 12:32pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/55 "2020-07-03T12:32:59Z")
Some core issues to consider for M-18 This will NOT be your traditional Migration - It will be approached as if we were/are professional pilots- This Migration will be conducted with a “SAFETY FIRST” mindset. We will do what we do with a health, safety approach. Next. This Migration will NOT be in a “high density” community. It is not in Las Vegas, or New Orleans, or similar. This year Migration is in a Small Beach Community; in the Fresh air breeze which will be an integrated part of what is happening. We will NOT let the global circumstances stop our lives. We will be thinking and planning outside the traditional Migration format. WE WILL ADAPT AND OVERCOME. We will find ways to make this a safe and fun event. REGISTER NOW as we need to establish a count ASAP ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/copa/original/3X/d/4/d4ad6473fcd5a06e869197753af1212c76eb0100.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![jshyoda](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/jshyoda/32/684_2.png) [@jshyoda](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/jshyoda)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/56 "2020-07-03T13:29:14Z")
I just registered for my first migration. Looking forward to it. Why does the attendee list reference the 17 migration on the confirmation page? ---
**Author:** ![willigi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/willigi/32/85051_2.png) [@willigi](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/willigi)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/57 "2020-07-03T14:25:24Z")
Eric: I normally practice my principle of never doing today what I can put off until tomorrow, but in this case, I am going to register now to give you guys on the committee the most information possible. \*\ ***I encourage everyone else who is thinking of going to make your decision now and register** \*\*. Lets make it easier not harder on the committee during this exceptional time. COPA is an exceptional organization lets make this happen. Gil ---
**Author:** ![predmond](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/predmond/32/237_2.png) [@predmond](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/predmond)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/58 "2020-07-03T14:37:07Z")
I was thinking about flying my amphib back to my home state of Maine this year, but: With great regret the 2020 Greenville International Seaplane Fly-In has been cancelled. The fly-in’s board of directors, including Chairmen Telford Allen III, son of the the founder of the fly-in, reviewed every consideration possible and in the end concluded the circumstances would just not allow the event to proceed. ---
**Author:** ![wjlong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/wjlong/32/174131_2.png) [@wjlong](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/wjlong)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 3:22pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/59 "2020-07-03T15:22:30Z")
> [@peterlitchfield](#): > > I find it fascinating that amateur pilots will fly themselves long distances across oceans and over poles in small single engine aircraft (a rather high risk activity) and then lose their minds over a rather low risk activity such as gathering in a room with other pilots. > > One of these is not like the other. Peter, I would agree with you if this situation was a decision _only_ about taking a personal risk. But this is a very different situation. By deciding “I am willing to take the risk” you may be also exposing others to that risk that may have decided differently. This is a societal risk management problem, not an solely an individual choice. ---
**Author:** ![peterlitchfield](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/copa/user_avatar/forum.cirruspilots.org/peterlitchfield/32/1346_2.png) [@peterlitchfield](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/u/peterlitchfield)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127/60 "2020-07-03T16:19:17Z")
I respectfully disagree in that risk is risk is risk. You and I both have a much higher risk of having a bad outcome while flying than having a bad outcome after exposure to covid. I’d say it’s approximately 10x. And this comes from a guy who spends several days a week getting coughed on by patients who without a doubt have covid related symptoms such as fever. The hospital I was at on Tuesday doesn’t even have enough masks to make sure that all the patients in the er are wearing one. That’s the level of rationing in a small hospital not that far from Nashville. So make your decision to come or not. But let’s not fudge the numbers associated with risk. [Previous page](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forum.cirruspilots.org/t/copa-migration-2020-thoughts/217127.md?page=4)